by jimwalton » Mon Sep 26, 2016 9:28 pm
> You were contradicting yourself here
No I'm not. Sorry I wasn't clear. When I said "surely," I meant we can't guarantee that it would have come by then, not that there's no way he will have come back by then. Ha. I wasn't even thinking that there are two ways to understand "surely". What I was saying is that we don't know when Jesus is coming back, but we can't guarantee that it will have happened by AD 5000.
> Do you actually think that could happen?
North Korea is toying with nuclear irresponsibility; various nations mess around with chemical weapons; diseases are on the increase, and viruses are evolving more resistance to our containments of them. Meanwhile people seem to show more hatred of each other rather than brotherly love, and violence seems to be on the increase. If I remember the statistics right, more people were killed during the 20th century than in all other previous centuries combined. Can humanity wipe itself out or poison the planet? Revelation speaks of massive decimations of life and environment (Rev. 8.8-9ff.).
> Could Biblical prophecy be averted?
No, the prophecy will stand. History will show it to be sure. Nuclear war is a possible fulfillment of Rev. 8.7. It wouldn't kill every single human in the aftermath. You're right that a self-eradicated humanity would contradict Revelation. I was speaking in generalizations, not in absolutes.
> She believes that the 'Bride of Jesus', all the followers of him throughout the ages, will reign over the entire universe in angelic spirit bodies.
That's from Revelation 20.4—the Millennial Reign of Christ. This is, like, the only verse in the Bible that specifically speaks of the Millennial Reign, and people have built whole scenarios on this one verse, but inferring pieces of other texts into this one. It's a pretty iffy thing to do. There are different interpretations of the Millennial Reign, but no, I don't think we'll reign as angelic spirit bodies. That's an interpretation that is never specifically stated.
> She further told me that our Earth will be ultimately destroyed, like ka-boom, the entire planet crushed into space dust, and that a new version of Earth had to be created. Do you agree with her?
That's from Revelation 21.1, where all it says is that the first earth had "passed away." The "boom" interpretation is out there, but that's not what I think will happen. The language here certainly suggests that a new heaven and new earth replace the old, but it sounds more like transformation than annihilation to me. The earth will be renewed and restored, not blown up and re-created, in my opinion.
> What does that entail?
Meaningful labor, loving relationships, creative culture, health and well-being, fun, worship, the arts and knowledge. Will they have governments? Yes (Luke 19.11-19). Do they observe mosaic law? No, that will have been fulfilled (Matthew 5.17-18).
> Will everyone be immortal?
Yes. Eternal life. Would the planet become over-populated? No. The Bible doesn't say anything about having more babies in the afterlife. Might the new earth be bigger than the old? That's possible, in the renewal, that God could change its size. Will humans colonize space? Wow, that's a fun possibility to speculate, isn't it?
> Yeah true, but I appreciate any constructive input!
When will all this happen? Jesus said it's not able to be figured out (Matthew 24.36, 42).
> You were contradicting yourself here
No I'm not. Sorry I wasn't clear. When I said "surely," I meant we can't guarantee that it would have come by then, not that there's no way he will have come back by then. Ha. I wasn't even thinking that there are two ways to understand "surely". What I was saying is that we don't know when Jesus is coming back, but we can't guarantee that it will have happened by AD 5000.
> Do you actually think that could happen?
North Korea is toying with nuclear irresponsibility; various nations mess around with chemical weapons; diseases are on the increase, and viruses are evolving more resistance to our containments of them. Meanwhile people seem to show more hatred of each other rather than brotherly love, and violence seems to be on the increase. If I remember the statistics right, more people were killed during the 20th century than in all other previous centuries combined. Can humanity wipe itself out or poison the planet? Revelation speaks of massive decimations of life and environment (Rev. 8.8-9ff.).
> Could Biblical prophecy be averted?
No, the prophecy will stand. History will show it to be sure. Nuclear war is a possible fulfillment of Rev. 8.7. It wouldn't kill every single human in the aftermath. You're right that a self-eradicated humanity would contradict Revelation. I was speaking in generalizations, not in absolutes.
> She believes that the 'Bride of Jesus', all the followers of him throughout the ages, will reign over the entire universe in angelic spirit bodies.
That's from Revelation 20.4—the Millennial Reign of Christ. This is, like, the only verse in the Bible that specifically speaks of the Millennial Reign, and people have built whole scenarios on this one verse, but inferring pieces of other texts into this one. It's a pretty iffy thing to do. There are different interpretations of the Millennial Reign, but no, I don't think we'll reign as angelic spirit bodies. That's an interpretation that is never specifically stated.
> She further told me that our Earth will be ultimately destroyed, like ka-boom, the entire planet crushed into space dust, and that a new version of Earth had to be created. Do you agree with her?
That's from Revelation 21.1, where all it says is that the first earth had "passed away." The "boom" interpretation is out there, but that's not what I think will happen. The language here certainly suggests that a new heaven and new earth replace the old, but it sounds more like transformation than annihilation to me. The earth will be renewed and restored, not blown up and re-created, in my opinion.
> What does that entail?
Meaningful labor, loving relationships, creative culture, health and well-being, fun, worship, the arts and knowledge. Will they have governments? Yes (Luke 19.11-19). Do they observe mosaic law? No, that will have been fulfilled (Matthew 5.17-18).
> Will everyone be immortal?
Yes. Eternal life. Would the planet become over-populated? No. The Bible doesn't say anything about having more babies in the afterlife. Might the new earth be bigger than the old? That's possible, in the renewal, that God could change its size. Will humans colonize space? Wow, that's a fun possibility to speculate, isn't it?
> Yeah true, but I appreciate any constructive input!
When will all this happen? Jesus said it's not able to be figured out (Matthew 24.36, 42).