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[Nsubuga]

I am commenting with an open heart; I am not an American, but live in Uganda. What you need this particular time is not to be negative to whatever President Trump is doing. The problem with many of your people is not being patient. But what I know your President is seeing something which many of you are not seeing, and it is only time that will tell.

[Brownie]

Pulling up specific examples would require me to go back and comb through Trump's speeches, which I'm not particularly inclined to do at the moment. I will say that xenophobia, and the like, need not mean that he treats all other ethnicities/nationalities like garbage, or that he thinks there are no good people around the world.

What is troubling is the way in which he capitalized on fear and stereotypes of other groups. He recklessly used (and continues to use) instances of crimes of undocumented immigrants to push forward his agenda. Mind you, this was without referencing the important context of the percentage of crimes committed by citizens. Further, chants of "Build a Wall" have no place in reasonable political discourse. As someone running as a leader of the US (and now as that leader), he must take responsibility for how his speech can be taken as xenophobic. Simply because someone can parse his words in a more favorable manner, it does not let him off the hook for the demeanor and underlying message that riled up many of his supporters.

Now, I have argued elsewhere that there are good arguments related to immigration, and as I noted, a wall is not in and of itself xenophobic; however, Trump seemed happy to blur the lines beyond recognition. Did you see this in the recent news? Horrific: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-publish-weekly-list-crimes-immigrants-commit-refugees-aliens-executive-order-us-a7546826.html

[jimwalton]

Good points, Brownie. If xenophobia is not an unqualified rejection of foreign people, I would need to see a definition.

It's true that he capitalized on fear and stereotypes, but I'm not convinced Hillary didn't do exactly the same, or also that many politicians don't try to capitalize on fear in their campaigns. It is no secret that Trump is not a careful speaker. He says many outrageous things in terminology that is unwisely chosen and not responsibly filtered. That's a given. So we're left to assemble many snippets of things he said and try to infer the most reasonable conclusion of who in the world is this guy and what does he believe, despite his reckless language. That's where things get tricky. People love to throw around sound bites and consider them as representative of his mindset, which may or may not be accurate since the guy is a loose cannon. I think his speech can be interpreted as xenophobic, but I think that's more of a knee-jerk reaction to his terminology and foolhardy phrasing. I'll readily admit that he needs a good slap before he opens his mouth in public to wake him up to how he comes across. What I'm not so convinced about is what seems to be a spurious, slanderous slur of him really being xenophobic. How do we truly get to the bottom of this with responsible research and analysis?

[Brownie]

Jim, a definition can certainly be a tricky thing. Related to that, I think there's some latitude people use in reference to such words. For example, imagine that I believed that 80% of white people are good people, but only 40% of minorities are. This would not be an outright rejection of minorities, but it certainly would show a form of prejudice. There are many other ways that this can take shape in regards to xenophobia without the "unqualified rejection of foreign people," as well.

[jimwalton]

So are you equating xenophobia with "a notable amount of racial prejudice"? Is xenophobia synonymous with racism? The formal definition is, "Intense or irrational dislike or fear of people from other countries." Now we have to somehow assess whether or not Trump has any of these characteristics: intense or irrational dislike, or fear of foreigners. Hmm. How do we do that with honesty and accuracy? His business record shows him happily at work with people of other races and nationalities. His campaign language was reckless. But what is he really like and is he truly guilty of the label? That's the hardest one to put a finger on.

[Brownie]

To add to this topic, the spotlight that this issue received with its overblown magnitude is part of the concern. To many, the narrative was that illegal immigrants are the cause (or at the very least a major cause) of our economic and societal woes today. It's these "illegals" (a very otherizing and dehumanizing term championed in the name of not being politically correct) that are to blame for our problems. This was argued without providing evidence of such. It was a clearly false insinuation that worked to rile up his base.

To me, it showed a disregard and apathy toward reason and evidence, and decency toward some of the most vulnerable of people among us.

[jimwalton]

Brownie, now I easily agree with everything you just said ("To add to this topic..."). Great comment. I'm still not sure that qualifies him for the "xenophobic" slur, but it does qualify him as probably the least polished campaigner in the history of the American presidency. It's also (I agree with you) patently untrue that illegal immigrants are the "cause" of our societal woes. I agree his words were dehumanizing. I mean, I agree the guy has some pretty severe problems.

[Brownie]

I am referencing racism as a parallel, and an issue that often factors in. Also, to make xenophobic remarks does not mean that someone themselves is xenophobic, but that their remarks encourage such a mindset/behavior. "Irrational" is certainly a loose term to begin with, and other definitions simply put it at "dislike of or prejudice against people from other countries."

Honestly, I don't know what Trump's true feelings about foreigners are, and would be inclined to think that he personally is not xenophobic in the strict sense. My argument would be that his campaign message and policies have played into some xenophobic tendencies of a political base. Generally speaking, I prefer to avoid the term xenophobic in general, as it is a broad term that would be hard to prove with any technical percision.

[Incor]

So, basically you are advocating to give Trump the benefit of the doubt because of his lifestyle, not his words. You are extrapolating his 'true interest' and the weight of his words from your perspective. That's fine, we all do it. But I need to ask WHY? Why this man? Why do you give him any benefit of the doubt? Why is he the horse you bet on? Top qualifications for a statesman are to be able to express yourself and communicate your policies in a way that people can understand. Trump cannot do this. Why give him a pass? Trump has done nothing to earn this benefit of the doubt. No political experience, no policies proposed, failed businesses, failed marriages, lawsuits filed against him for a number of reasons, and a commitment to backing untruths. If we are going to address his 'true interest' I think the only thing that is obvious is that his true interest is himself. So, why give him a pass and say that the wall is about security and not his own interests?

[jimwalton]

Nicholas Incorvaia, good points. My opinion of Trump during the campaign is that he is an immoral man and a loose cannon when it comes to public speaking. (Full disclosure: my opinion of Hillary is that she was an immoral woman, so it's not like I thought she was any paragon of purity by comparison.) Trump has a lot of problems. Your comments have expanded the range of this conversation to his whole person, but my concern in this particular forum discussion (lest we start blowing all over the map) is the accusation of xenophobia. All this conversation, and my research before it and because of it, have genuinely made me wonder if the accusation is a slanderous slur based on how irresponsibly he uses language. And it's hard for me to figure out how to get to the root of how he actually feels about foreigners. Another poster, Patrick Nolan Brown, has said (wisely, in my opinion) that Trump may not be technically xenophobic, but his rhetoric has given the impression that he blames illegal immigrants for the woes of American society, which I think we all (or most of us) believe is a radically incorrect analysis. What I said to him (and I'll paste it again here) is, "So we're left to assemble many snippets of things he said and try to infer the most reasonable conclusion of who in the world is this guy and what does he believe, despite his reckless language. That's where things get tricky. People love to throw around sound bites and consider them as representative of his mindset, which may or may not be accurate since the guy is a loose cannon. I think his speech can be interpreted as xenophobic, but I think that's more of a knee-jerk reaction to his terminology and foolhardy phrasing. I'll readily admit that he needs a good slap before he opens his mouth in public to wake him up to how he comes across. What I'm not so convinced about is what seems to be a spurious, slanderous slur of him really being xenophobic. How do we truly get to the bottom of this with responsible research and analysis?"

In my opinion, Hillary was the demigod of corruption in politics, and Trump is an immoral jerk, if I may, who can't parse his words in a responsible manner. But all that is beyond the range of this conversation. We could go on forever about all this stuff. My honest question is, "Is the guy really xenophobic?" I'm not convinced he is. He's a whole lot of things we can complain about until the cows come home, and I can see how his words have been construed (twisted?) to have a slanderous rallying cry of "Xenophobe!", but I'm still working on it here. I'd like to get to the bottom of it, and I'm not sure how to do that. My thoughts and investigation so far have not led me to the conclusion that he is xenophobic.