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[Newbie]

If prayer really worked, wouldn't more people recover from cancer?

Does someone here believe that prayers can have a material impact on the real world? If you do, I'd be very interested in hearing your views on this analysis: http://i.imgur.com/dbu3s8x.jpg

The first map shows the proportion of the population in each State that prays at least once a day, based on a survey carried out in 2008. The second map shows the annual number of deaths from cancer per 100,000 people in each Health Service Area across the US in the period 2006-2010.
When someone is diagnosed with cancer it is clearly a very worrying event, and I expect the affected person and their family and friends would pray more often than normal. I also expect that those who normally pray a lot will still be praying more than those in the same situation who normally pray only rarely or not at all. I'm also assuming that most of the people who pray for a cancer patient live near, or at least in the same state as, the patient.

On this basis, the people who live in places where they pray more would be less likely to die of cancer if prayer worked. Looking at the maps you can clearly see that the opposite is true: some of the places where people pray the most have the worst cancer death rates and the places where people pray the least have some of the lowest death rates.

From a rational, scientific point of view I can think of a number of contributing factors, such as differences is healthcare provision, different demographics and less healthy life choices (food, smoking, lack of exercise, etc). It could even be that more religious people refuse medical treatment due to the perceived power of prayer.

Given this information, can someone here who believes in the power of prayer please explain the apparent discrepancy between the data and what we would expect to see if prayer worked?

[jimwalton]

Wow. I agree that there are so many factors at work in the incidence of cancer that a simply chart like this is almost ridiculously primitive and unreliable. I think the chart is deliberately trying to isolate (unjustifiably) statistics to express an opinion rather than a scientifically thorough study. You probably know the classic quotes:

“There are three types of lies -- lies, damn lies, and statistics.” - Benjamin Disraeli

“Facts are stubborn things, but statistics are pliable.” - Mark Twain

“99 percent of all statistics only tell 49 percent of the story.” - Ron DeLegge II

Interestingly, I have come across other "studies" and "surveys" that show the opposite of what your chart does, viz. that people who are prayed for fare much better than those who do not. Who's to say, I guess, which stats are more trustworthy.

Having said that, though, I don't just want to disappreciate your point, which is wondering about the efficacy of prayer for the sick. In the Bible, you'll notice that there are hardly ANY healings recorded, except during the ministry of Jesus. In the whole Old Testament (several thousand years, at least), there are only a handful (maybe 4?). In the NT, other than Jesus, again, only a handful. The point is clearly that God is generally not in the business of miraculously healing people from their sicknesses. God's purpose in our lives is primarily the business of healing people from their sins.

Without a doubt, though, James 5.14 tells us to pray for people who are sick. You'll notice in that verse that healing from sickness is taught as a joint venture between medical care (the anointing of oil) and God's activity as part of the whole healing process. What is expected is not necessarily a miracle, but medical care applied for benefit, and prayer to acknowledge the part that the Lord plays in our health and well-being. God should be acknowledged in all of life's issues, and our sickness and health are no different. Many people, myself included, will give testimony to the power of prayer to heal, but there are certainly no guarantees.

My testimony? My son, at 19 years old, had a debilitating stroke. Yeah, a stroke. He was in the hospital, fighting for his life, and the doctors were pessimistic. He only spoke in garbles, and the prognosis was grim. We arrived at the hospital that evening, and he could barely function. He was totally incoherent and incommunicative. Early early the next morning, our church gathered to pray, as did people around the world (thanks to the Internet). When my wife and I arrived in his room at 9:00, he sat up and said, "Hi, Mom. Hi Dad." I kid you not. Are there medical explanations? Possibly. Are there spiritual explanations. Easily.

And yet this is not an isolated story. Many people tell such stories. I only relate this one with confidence because I was there and saw and heard it.

[gmw803]

58% of all statistics are made up - including this one.

It is a dangerous thing to keep score on God. First, you are holding God accountable to yourself. But more cogently, you are reducing faith to a method of record.

When I lead a group as we collect prayer requests, I lack the guts to ask, "Have you first prayed asking if it is God's will that your 8-year old daughter should live?" And that is sin on my part. For if God has a better plan in mind, by all means, bring it on. But my audible prayer goes (with no fanfare) "It is our hearts' desire that the Murphy's child should live."

If anyone should seek to solve God, he is searching for the substance that would disqualify his faith.

[jimwalton]

I agree that God's will and ways are not reducible to a winning record, mathematical formulas, or statistic predictions. Can you imagine the state of affairs where we would tell someone, "Well, if you get people to pray for you, you have a 63% of recovery, over a 47% chance is no one prays for you"? It's reducing God to a mockery and prayer to a wish list. Since prayer is one of the ways we enjoy our relationship with God, it's pretty ludicrous to subject it to statistical probabilities.

[Dennis Jensen]

One should think about these statistics very carefully. They indicate that cancer death rates are higher in an area which has a correspondingly higher prayer frequency. Now the fact is that everyone has to die at some time or other. That means that those in the lower cancer area will less often die of cancer but instead will more often die of some other cause. My point is simply that looking at higher and lower cancer death rates are meaningless for evaluating the effectiveness of prayer. If one area has a higher cancer death rate among people who pray more, the other area has a higher death rate for other reasons among people who pray less.