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All about sin. What is it, how does it work, what does it do—whatever your questions are

Re: Why would God punish all of us for Adam's sin?

Postby Eddie » Tue Sep 29, 2015 1:41 pm

You're completely ignoring, or purposefully leaving out, God's responsibility for his creation. God, as the creator of all things, is responsible for all things. God created hell and the criteria by which souls are judged to go there, so he's responsible for anyone who goes.

A much better analogy is a mafia boss. A mafia boss offers his protection, but if you don't accept it he's going to have his boys shoot out your kneecaps. Now, did you choose to have your kneecaps shot for refusing his protection? No, that's ridiculous, the mafia boss is obviously responsible for what happened.

What if someone tries to rob you on the street at gunpoint, meaning he'll shoot you if you don't give him your wallet. He says "don't make me shoot you." If you don't give him your wallet did you choose to get shot, or is the thief responsible for pulling the trigger to shoot you?

You can't ignore God's position as the authority and one responsible for his entire creation. Your analogies completely ignore that fact.
Eddie
 

Re: Why would God punish all of us for Adam's sin?

Postby jimwalton » Tue Oct 20, 2015 3:17 am

Your logic breaks down at your first premise: "God is responsible for his creation." That's not a biblical concept. God created with a particular goal in mind, but people used their free will to sabotage it. Now humanity has gone rogue and run renegade, and it is under the control of a different force. Then God makes it his responsibility to do everything in his power to redeem them back, but there's only so much he can do. He can't interfere with their free will; love that is forced isn't love. He enacts a plan and pays the required price, but he cannot force us to respond. Each person must choose to put him- or herself under his authority, and then he can take responsibility for them again. For those who come to him, he takes responsibility to guarantee their entrance (Philippians 1.6).

Now, you also need to understand that he never created hell for people. That's not what hell is for. Matt. 25.41 is quite clear that hell is for the devil and his angels. Any person who goes there goes there against God's desires and intent.

Your analogy of a mafia boss goes against what Scripture tells us. Again, if you want to have this conversation with a Christian, we need to converse from the standpoint of what the Bible actually teaches rather than a slanted take on it. The mafia analogy assumes evil intent and evil means to accomplish evil goals. None of those are consistent with biblical teachings. Your analogy shows your bias, not an accurate understanding of biblical theology.

God is certainly in a position of authority, but not one of free-wheeling responsibility. Humans placed themselves out of the latter sphere, much to God's grief. His authoritative actions now are aimed at redeeming those who will freely come to him.


Last bumped by Anonymous on Tue Oct 20, 2015 3:17 am.
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