Board index ‹ Creation and Evolution

[Triple Threat]

> So I'm not making up stuff.

I'm not claiming you made anything up.. but somewhere along the line someone did. They created a word to describe something that we didn't have a word for. For example, words like "soul" have been created to describe something for which we have no evidence exists. Therefore, someone like you may use the word to justify it's existence, but that doesn't necessarily mean it does exist.

> "him" is the son God had before there were human beings.

I guess that's a shortcoming of my knowledge of the bible. I wasn't aware that it stated that Jesus existed before his birth on earth.

[jimwalton]

Glad you asked. Yep, the Bible certainly claims that.

- John 1.1-3: The Word (Jesus, v. 14) was with God in the beginning. Actually, he is God.
- John 17.5, 24: Jesus claims to have been around before the world began
- Colossians 1.15-16: Jesus is the creator of the universe
- Hebrews 1.2: Jesus is the creator of the universe
- John 8.58: Jesus claims to have existed before Abraham (who was in about 2000 BC).

[Triple Threat]

I think the disconnect between our conversation is that based on what you have communicated it me, it seems that your basis for truth is the contents of the bible.

While it may be unique in its claims, believing in a book is not a unique idea. You have many major religions that claim their book is the only truth and that fact alone makes me skeptical to believe any of them.

[jimwalton]

> I think the disconnect between our conversation is that based on what you have communicated it me, it seems that your basis for truth is the contents of the bible.

Thanks for trying to clarify, but this isn't it. My basis for truth is correspondence to reality based on evidence. Through research, I have determined that the Bible stands up to examination and that there's a ton of evidence to support it, and on that basis I consider the Bible to be true. It's the same kind of thinking by which I consider science and history to be true.

> You have many major religions that claim their book is the only truth and that fact alone makes me skeptical to believe any of them.

Right. We don't just believe the book because it's "the book," nor because the book or any religious person says to believe it. We believe it because it stands up to scrutiny and corresponds with reality. That's why I'm skeptical of the other religious books but believe the Bible. It has enough evidence to bear it out.

But, frankly, you're asking questions about Jesus's pre-existence, Jesus as God's son, why did God create the world, and the identity of angels. These aren't exactly the kinds of subjects we can do science experiments about.

A question for you is: Why do you want to participate in a discussion with a Christian if you're not going to buy anything they say?