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[J Lord]

So then it is impossible to attain the Kingdom of God without human achievement. One has to reach the correct conclusion about whether God exists or not. If a person evaluates the evidence and reaches the wrong conclusion then God punishes them for holding an honest but mistaken belief.

[jimwalton]

No, that's incorrect. I don't know of anyone who considers belief in God a human achievement. Intellectual recognition is not a "work" that people must do to earn their way into the kingdom. Belief is a state, not a performance.

> If a person evaluates the evidence and reaches the wrong conclusion then God punishes them for holding an honest but mistaken belief.

That's correct, and it's no different from other disciplines. There are right and wrong answers. I answer questions on my physics exam that I consider to be right, but the prof marks them wrong. I have reached the wrong conclusion and I am punished for holding an honest but mistaken belief. So also in any field. It's even the case in jurisprudence. Someone may consider that what they are doing is justified and correct, but if it's against the law, one can be punished for holding an honest but mistaken belief.

[J Lord]

> Intellectual recognition is not a "work" that people must do to earn their way into the kingdom.

Well, it's something they have to do. If they don't correctly analyze the available evidence they get punished. If you don't consider getting the right answer to a question to be an achievement, I think you are making a subjective distinction.

> I have reached the wrong conclusion and I am punished for holding an honest but mistaken belief.

Then God is punishing people for things that they cannot control. The limits of a person reasoning ability are actually within God's control more than a person's control. So really God is punishing people for something he did himself. It makes no sense.

[jimwalton]

> Well it's something they have to do.

They are responsible and accountable for their decisions, but this is not a "work". Ephesians 2.8-9 makes the distinction between "faith" and "works". Faith is a spiritual response, a coming to awareness and making an admission, not something we do to merit favor.

> If you don't consider getting the right answer to a question to be an achievement

When I tell my wife I love her, that's not an achievement, but a disclosure. When I admit to her that I trust her, that's not an achievement either, but a state of being in myself that I recognize. Neither of those are "human achievements." So also my love for God and trust in Him.

> Then God is punishing people for things that they cannot control.

Oh, but I can control it. I am a free being who can reason, evaluate, and choose. I could be either mistaken or defiant against what I've been taught, but either way it's within my control.

> The limits of a person reasoning ability are actually within God's control more than a person's control.

I disagree with this strongly. God neither controls what I think or the limits of my thinking. We humans run the gamut from incapacitated mental patients to Stephen Hawking. God is not controlling anything about our thinking. The Bible never teaches any such thing.

> So really God is punishing people for something he did himself.

An illegitimate conclusion if ever I saw one. I'm not at all catching the progression of thought here, since neither premises, points, nor conclusion are anything the Bible teaches or that Christians believe.

[J Lord]

> When I tell my wife I love her, that's not an achievement, but a disclosure.

But you first have to believe that you have a wife who exists. This is a question of fact and if you get the answer wrong then you cannot make this disclosure.

> I could be either mistaken or defiant against what I've been taught, but either way it's within my control.

So when you are mistaken about something, you are choosing to be mistaken? That makes no sense. All you can do is keep trying to get an answer correct. You cannot just choose to be correct. If you try your best and get it wrong, this is not something you have chosen to do and is not something within your control

> God neither controls what I think or the limits of my thinking.

Your brain controls and limits your thinking. So if God had anything to do with creating your brain, then God controls and limits your thinking.

> I'm not at all catching the progression of thought here,

God knows everything and can do anything. God chose to create a world knowing that I would be born into particular circumstances with a particular brain. God knows that in these circumstances I will honestly reach the wrong answer about his existence. He could have chosen to create a world where I had a different brain that allowed me to reach the correct conclusion. But he chose this world, and as a result he will punish me in the afterlife for something that he chose.

[jimwalton]

You seem to be working real hard here to prove something unreasonable, and I'm still not sure what it is. "Methinks thou protests too much." But let me deal with your last paragraph. Maybe that's where I should expend my efforts.

> God knows everything and can do anything.

Wrong. It doesn’t mean there are no limits to what God can do. It means God is able to do all things that are proper objects of his power. It is no contradiction that God can realize whatever is possible, but that no number of actualized possibilities exhausts his power. God can realize whatever is possible. There are, however, certain qualifications of this all-powerful character of God. He cannot arbitrarily do anything whatsoever that we may conceive of.
- He can’t do what is logically absurd or contradictory
- He can’t act contrary to his nature
- He cannot fail to do what he has promised
- The theology of omnipotence rejects the possibility of dualism
- He cannot interfere with the freedom of man
- He cannot change the past
- It is not violated by self-limitation on the part of God
- It does not imply the use of all the power of God

> God chose to create a world knowing that I would be born into particular circumstances with a particular brain.

Right. And this dynamical world God created is far superior to the alternative of a static world.

> God knows that in these circumstances I will honestly reach the wrong answer about his existence.

Right. Though He has given you enough information for you to make the correct choice, and continues (within that dynamical framework) to persuade you, it is within your control, and your control only, to make the right choice.

> He could have chosen to create a world where I had a different brain that allowed me to reach the correct conclusion.

Wrong. A world of you having a different kind of brain that only allowed you to make right conclusions is not within His scope to do. It is a self-contradictory world where choice is necessary but impossible.

> But he chose this world, and as a result he will punish me in the afterlife for something that he chose.

Wrong. He will punish you in the afterlife for what you choose. He is continually giving you right information to make the correct decision. Even your many many conversations with me could easily be construed as God making his appeal to you through me: Come to God. Acknowledge the truth. Stop pushing against all of God's input, and submit to His call to you. But if you choose to continue to rebel and resist, He is not to blame. Your brain has the capacity (since that was one of your questions) to acknowledge Him. You are not convinced, obviously, and are choosing a path of your own making. You will only be punished in the afterlife for what you have chosen.