Board index LGBT: Gays, Lesbians, Bisexual, Transgender, and Homosexuality

Let's talk about it. The Bible says some stuff, and our culture says a lot.
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Why the preoccupation with homosexuality

Postby Double Chin » Wed Mar 15, 2017 10:41 am

I get that it is a sin. It is mentioned a few times in the OT. It seems to be noted in the part of the bible where keeping kosher, not cutting your hair. and other rules we no longer follow are.

There are a few of the 10 commandments (adultery, coveting,) that people who are welcomed in your church have committed.

Why is this one so important.?

I am not trying to inflame, just trying to understand.
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Re: Why the preoccupation with homosexuality

Postby Matthew » Wed Mar 15, 2017 10:44 am

> Why is this one so important.?

Because our culture has been working so hard to normalize it and claim that there is nothing wrong with same-sex intercourse. The church is not preoccupied with homosexuality; the culture is, and they are frustrated that the church refuses to change its stance.

And that's a stance, by the way, that is reinforced in the New Testament, not just in ancient Levitical law for the Jews. Homosexual behavior has been prohibited since the dawn of Christianity, and that will not change. It is a rule that must still be followed.

> There are a few of the 10 commandments (adultery, coveting,) that people who are welcomed in your church have committed.

People who have had same-sex intercourse and who currently have same-sex attraction are always welcome in the church. But like all sinners, they must agree to leave their sinful life. They have to stop cheating on their wives, they have to stop having sex with someone they're not married to, they have to try and stop coveting.
Matthew
 

Re: Why the preoccupation with homosexuality

Postby jimwalton » Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:35 pm

Excellent answer, Matthew. Very well said.
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Re: Why the preoccupation with homosexuality

Postby Guest » Sat Apr 29, 2017 2:03 pm

For one thing, people are generally preoccupied with sexuality and it occupies a large part of their thinking and biological urges. Look at how people react to any discussion or expression of sexuality- people have a visceral reaction. Turned on or repulsed. Any "alternative" sexuality is going to get a reaction from people who arent attracted that way. I know people who are gay who are absolutely disgusted by the idea of heterosexual missionary position intercourse. The visceral response creates a lot of the preoccupation with people who are LGBT- who are easy targets anyway.
And at least 3% of people are going to be LGBT+: no matter how reverent their background is, no matter if they identify as such or not, if they are celibate, whether they want to be that way or not. Some will be out and proud, others will keep it internal, but it's always happened. Look at the amount of religious leaders who have had same-sex activities. Including many who also had tendencies toward greed, corruption, and oppression. They continued to get support because they were established leaders. David and Solomon had some ethical issues, and more wives and CONCUBINES than any of us could imagine. To me it's old hat and just says sexuality exists in a lot of different forms and we need to be careful of witch hunts about it. To many, being "traditional" means going along with a heterosexual norm. The downside is this brings invisibility and incredible frustration and lack of meaning to people who are different or in a lonely situation. I do admire the reverence of those who choose celibacy. But just sweeping the issue under the rug contributes to the hate, oppression, and throwing away of people who are LGBT.
Many people who are LGBT really fit the role of prophet and firebrand. People who have to think outside the box their whole lives. A small minded approach is to focus on the specific sexual act. We need to always look at the whole person. LGBT people are awesome and original, although highly traumatized and stigmatized and absolutely misunderstood.
Guest
 

Re: Why the preoccupation with homosexuality

Postby jimwalton » Wed May 17, 2017 11:42 am

Guest, I agree with a lot of what you said and thank you for posting. Sexuality is obviously a huge part of our psyche and identity, as well as our feelings and thoughts, by the simple fact that we're human. People do have visceral reactions, as you say, but turned on or repulsed aren't the only two choices. Obviously, some are also neutral, unaffected, mildly aroused, etc. There are a lot of choices here. And it's also true that any alternative sexuality is going to get a reaction from people; many of us just seem wired for conformity (while a minority are just as strongly wired as adventurers).

I also agree that a small proportion are going to be LGBT no matter what. In some cultures they stay hidden, and in other they are public. It depends on the acceptability of these sexual lifestyles and the punishments for aberrants that usually dictates their public personas.

I also agree that we need to not only be careful of witch hunts about it, but to abhor such witch hunts. There is no place for that kind of hatred.

I also agree that we always need to look at the whole person (since we are all far more than just sexual beings and sexual identities). Jesus didn't give us permission to not love anyone.

One point I wonder about, though, in what you wrote: "A small-minded approach is to focus on the specific sexual act." In the Bible sexuality is a large subject of discussion, and God obvious cares deeply about sexual morality and sexual behavior, even sexual thoughts (Matt. 5). Specific sexual acts all seem to be important the mind of God, so I don't agree that focusing on sexual acts is ever small-minded. Maybe they seem small to us, but to God they are unmistakably important and we have to both understand and follow the Scriptures with regard to even what seems to us the smallest sexual matters.
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Re: Why the preoccupation with homosexuality

Postby TrakeM » Sat Jul 01, 2017 11:58 pm

Matthew wrote:> Why is this one so important.?

Because our culture has been working so hard to normalize it and claim that there is nothing wrong with same-sex intercourse. The church is not preoccupied with homosexuality; the culture is, and they are frustrated that the church refuses to change its stance.

And that's a stance, by the way, that is reinforced in the New Testament, not just in ancient Levitical law for the Jews. Homosexual behavior has been prohibited since the dawn of Christianity, and that will not change. It is a rule that must still be followed.

> There are a few of the 10 commandments (adultery, coveting,) that people who are welcomed in your church have committed.

People who have had same-sex intercourse and who currently have same-sex attraction are always welcome in the church. But like all sinners, they must agree to leave their sinful life. They have to stop cheating on their wives, they have to stop having sex with someone they're not married to, they have to try and stop coveting.


Seriously, have you seen Donald Trump? Donald Trump gained more support from christians and christian leadership than any other politician in history. It's hard to believe that christians really care that much about adultery given this fact.

As for homosexuality, you can like it or lump it but morality is moving forward with or without you and with or without your religion. People aren't going to start believing that gay people shouldn't have to same rights that you do or that gay people are committing an evil sin. Your side lost. Your side lost for a reason. Your side couldn't offer up an argument other than religion and it makes me feel icky. Gay marriage is here to stay. The fact that your side wanted for it to be illegal rather shows that your side still wants a theocracy. That your side doesn't really believe in live and let live when you have a chance to encode your religion into law.

All of this being said, I would like to take this opportunity to plead with you and christians in general to do something. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE make as big a deal of this going forward as possible. PLEASE make it clear how your belief system says that a man loving another man sexually and a woman loving another woman sexually is abominable as often as possible especially when when talking to people who are considering being a christian but aren't sure. PLEASE make sure that people know exactly what the new and ESPECIALLY the old testament (with an emphasis on leviticus and deuteronomy) says about homosexuality. PLEASE make this a key part of your religion and please preach and remind people of the words of the bible (especially deuteronomy and leviticus) on this issue as much as possible. This is not just a request for jimwalton, this is a request for all christians and christian leadership. Watch where following this advice gets you with converting millennials to your way of thinking.
TrakeM
 

Re: Why the preoccupation with homosexuality

Postby jimwalton » Sat Aug 12, 2017 1:06 am

> Donald Trump gained more support from christians and christian leadership than any other politician in history.

I don't agree with this at all. The Christian community was very divided in the support of Trump and still is. There have been candidates in the past that were clearly better choices. Trump has never been the obvious choice or (egads) the moral one.

> morality is moving forward with or without you and with or without your religion.

I would say that a form of immorality is moving forward, trying desperately to leave Christians and Christianity behind, but only time will tell how that works or whether it ever comes to fruition.

> your side still wants a theocracy.

This isn't true. Very few Christians want a theocracy. We would, however, prefer a moral government based in moral principles and governed by moral laws.


Last bumped by Anonymous on Sat Aug 12, 2017 1:06 am.
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