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Let's talk about it. The Bible says some stuff, and our culture says a lot.
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Why haven't I been killed yet since I'm gay?

Postby Black & Green » Mon Apr 08, 2019 1:22 pm

why i havent been killed yet if im gay?

family knows and is religious, i live in a country where like 90% is christian. im confused
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Re: Why haven't I been killed yet since I'm gay?

Postby jimwalton » Mon Apr 08, 2019 1:26 pm

You shouldn't be confused. Christians don't kill gays. We are taught to love one another, to be tolerant, and to accept one another. The Old Testament teachings were for the theocracy of ancient Israel. When they ceased to be a nation in 586 BC, the laws pertaining to their theocracy were no longer valid.

In Leviticus 18-20, the commands are for the covenant people. They aren't lists of rules to be obeyed, but legal wisdom to circumscribe for God's people the bounds of civil, legal, and ritual order. They are hypothetical examples to illustrate underlying principles (just like we use word problems to teach math. You can ignore what the words are about as long as you are getting how to do math. The purpose isn't to teach about trains, building, running, or apples, but to learn trigonometry.). The point was to shape Israelite society in such a way that God's presence would remain with them, not to provide a set of instructions. There is never any clue that these guidelines were applicable to anyone except Israel, God's covenant community. They were never meant to pertain to universal standards, but only with regard to God's order for His people and meaning that is relative to sacred space.

If your family knows, and they are religious, I would assume they will love you even if they possibly disagree with your life choices. So it should be with any Christian: they will love you even if they disagree with your life choices.
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Re: Why haven't I been killed yet since I'm gay?

Postby Black & Green » Mon Apr 08, 2019 2:07 pm

my family doesnt love me lol. theyre just religious hypocrites (like most people worldwide who love to CHERRY PICK )who claim to be religious. anyways thanks for the insight. youre one of the few who actually read the bible. and btw being gay is not a lifestyle. i dont understand why people think that. how does my romantic and physical attraction to a certain gender, make it a lifestyle?
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Re: Why haven't I been killed yet since I'm gay?

Postby jimwalton » Mon Apr 08, 2019 2:09 pm

I called it a lifestyle because I assumed it was the style of your life. The term doesn't require that I'm saying you chose it or didn't, but only that being gay is how you live. That's all I meant by it. If you want to talk further, we can. Otherwise, we'll perhaps talk again another time.
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Re: Why haven't I been killed yet since I'm gay?

Postby Black & Green » Mon Apr 08, 2019 3:13 pm

how do i live? i live being human. my love and or sex (which is nonexistant) life doesnt determine my lifestyle. this corrupt system determines my, yours, and everybody elses lifestyle. and i didnt choose to be gay also to clarifiy. why would i choose to be a minority? some people believe that idk why. thats like rejecting a trillion dollars someone offers you. i dont have heterosexual privilige. idk why people think a sexual orientation (which not everyone is sexual fyi) is a lifestyle choice. that doesnt make sense!
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Re: Why haven't I been killed yet since I'm gay?

Postby jimwalton » Mon Apr 08, 2019 3:15 pm

Thanks for clarifying. I wasn't trying to be offensive. I didn't claim or suggest that you chose to be gay (a lifestyle choice), but only that that was the life you were living. That's all I meant by it. I apologize if something I said offended you.
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Re: Why haven't I been killed yet since I'm gay?

Postby Black & Green » Mon Apr 08, 2019 4:10 pm

no worries im not offended im just pissed in general (nothing personal). the life i live isnt defined by only my romantic life. theres alot of things that make up a lifestyle. theres more predominance of romanticism in some peoples life wether they are homosex bi heterosex pansex etcetc. people have different lifestyles but it doesnt have anything to do with their romantic nor sex experiences (unless someone is a prostitute for example). I just want to bring awareness because its something alot of people ,especially heteros ,lack awareness of what it means to be a minority
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Re: Why haven't I been killed yet since I'm gay?

Postby jimwalton » Mon Apr 08, 2019 4:21 pm

Yeah. I think it's sort of sad that some people seem to think that our sexuality defines all of life, and that sexuality is the only thing that matters in life or is important. To me, there is so much more to look at, so much more to think about, and even so much more that defines us. I mean, duh, sexuality is important, but it's not everything.

> lack awareness of what it means to be a minority

Y'know, except in rare cases, it's just impossible to really put yourself in someone else's shoes and walk around in them. I mean, even if I were able to do that, I have all of my life experiences and perspectives that have been framed by my past, and there's no way to not think or see according to those experiences. There just isn't.

At the same time, we need to train ourselves to be aware of other people, and what they've had to go through. Our awareness, hopefully, can help us to be compassionate, sympathetic, empathetic, and tolerant. And if we all do our best to think of others rather than ourselves, to speak and act with compassion rather than judgment, to be aware of others' experiences and sensitivities, we really can learn to get along and build each other up a whole lot better than we are.

We seem to default, instead, to various positions of fear, self-centeredness, and apathy (and in the worst cases, racism, sexual deprecation, verbal abuse, and all of those horrible behaviors). Ya gotta wonder what makes people so mean lately. We see it on the news every night. People attacking others, punching, shooting, yelling—it's awful, isn't it?

Jesus talked about living together in peace. He was a very tolerant guy (except for religious hypocrites). He talked about showing kindness and compassion, forgiveness and not judging each other. Why can't we all just follow Jesus?
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Re: Why haven't I been killed yet since I'm gay?

Postby Black & Green » Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:39 pm

yeah i agree with you. just one thing though.. dont confuse sexuality with sexual orientation. sexuality is related with libido and a persons sex life, regardless of which gender they are attracted to. sexual orientation involves a certain type of love thats different from other types.. its romanticism.. its marriage(figuratively and or literally). just with the word sex.. people judge because they only think of sex with no strings attached(not that theres anything wrong with sex in itself)..sigh.. what im tryingg to say is that language contributes to misinterpretations since we all have different perspectives of the world. its hard sometimes to put something in a way were people can see it objectively.

im not religious, but i believe in Jesus. I dont believe he was white though.. like the racist colonialist Europeans made him out to be. I agree more people should strive to be like him. i personally think religion is an antiquated worldview thats in contradiction with evolution and civilization. Religion is compatible with primitivistic lifestyles. this is another reason why i say all religious folks are hypocrites. for example islam is the predominat religion in the UAE where Dubai is! LOL. i cant help but laugh at their hypocrisy.
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Re: Why haven't I been killed yet since I'm gay?

Postby jimwalton » Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:49 pm

> dont confuse sexuality with sexual orientation. ... language contributes to misinterpretations

I agree. I didn't mean to do that if I did.

> i believe in Jesus. I dont believe he was white though

You're right again. The genealogy of Jesus makes clear that he was from the Middle East, with ancestors who were Mesopotamian (Abraham), Canaanite (Rahab), and Moabite (Ruth), all Middle-Eastern. It is possible that also that he has some African in his heritage, since Solomon had many wives, and we don't know the heritage of all of them. There is also the possibility of other interracial marriages in the long line of his ancestry.

Essentially, Jesus was of mixed Near-Eastern heritage. There's every reason to believe he had normal skin tones for that part of the world (medium to dark brown), dark brown eyes, and dark brown hair. He had a beard and, being a lawful Jew, he most likely had payot.

We can just about guarantee he wasn't white.

> like the racist colonialist Europeans made him out to be.

Yeah, it was part of the art world of European culture to portray people like the dominant population of Europe at the time.

> i personally think religion is an antiquated worldview thats in contradiction with evolution and civilization

Now, I believe in the Bible, Jesus, and evolution. I'm convinced the Bible tells us that God created, but it doesn't tell us what processes He used or how long it took. I believe God used the evolutionary process to bring about the world we see. I don't see any contradiction between the Bible and science, or between the Bible and civilized people.

> Religion is compatible with primitivistic lifestyles.

Christianity is amazing in that it is just as "at home" with the scholar as the peasant, the intellectual and the primitive, the mind and emotions, the adult and the child, any culture, any language, any gender, any socio-economic status.

> this is another reason why i say all religious folks are hypocrites.

I see hypocrisy in every corner of humanity: business, politics, science, academia, religion, education, and philosophy. It's a human cancer. Religious people are supposedly working hard to not be hypocrites, but too many are, and hence the bad reputation. Jesus was no hypocrite, though, and it's to Him we look as our model.
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