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Assorted and general Bible questions that really don't fit any of the other categories

Scripture about Christian's being persecuted

Postby New Account » Wed Apr 11, 2018 10:27 pm

I repeatedly hear a lot of Christians believing that in the USA they are persecuted, even though they are a majority of the population. I find it sometimes confusing because from my perspective it is a lot harder to be a muslim in our country or even an Atheist because a lot of people inherently don't trust these individuals. I genuinely would like to understand why a lot of Christians believe that they are being persecuted. I was thinking that it may have to do with scripture? Does scripture say that when Jesus returns a lot of people won't be Christians and instead imply that most people are going to hell and possibly a lot of people will persecute Christians?

I believe films such as God's not dead portrays the world/America as anti-christian. Unfortunately I haven't seen the film, but perhaps this is some of the reason why they believe they are being persecuted. (That since the government isn't allowed to push a specific religion, they think they're being persecuted).

I know this message is a bit incoherent, however if you can help me understand their viewpoint, then I think it would help me immensely. I honestly don't believe that Christians are naive or anything derogatory, so for a lot of them to claim that their condition in America is anything resembling actual persecution just really perplexes me. Also sorry for writing Christian's in the title instead of Christians.
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Re: Scripture about Christian's being persecuted

Postby jimwalton » Wed Apr 11, 2018 10:51 pm

Some items from the news:

- 2011: InterVarsity Christian Fellowship is excluded from college campuses because they have a policy that their leaders follow Christian principles. The universities claim that they should allow people of other religions or of no religion to be in their leadership positions.
- 2012: A Christian baker in Colorado is sued for living according to their Christian principles and declining to bake a wedding cake for a gay couple.
- 2013: Christian bakers in Oregon are sued to refusing to bake a cake for a lesbian couple. The owners were subjected to mobs outside their establishment, threats to their vendors, and death threats to their children.
- 2016: The US Commission on Civil Rights, in a report or religious liberty, argued that Bible-believing Christians use the phrase "religious liberty" as a code phrase for "discrimination, intolerance, racism, sexism, homophobia, Islamophobia, Christian supremacy or any form of intolerance."
- 2017: The SPLC labelled Christian churches and ministries as hate groups. Said Former SPLC spokesman and senior fellow Mark Potok in 2007: "Sometimes the press will describe us as monitoring hate groups. I want to say plainly that our aim in life is to destroy these groups, completely destroy them."
- Dec, 2017: A fire chief in Atlanta wrote a book for his church from his home on his own time about marriage being for one man and one woman. He was fired.
- Feb 2018: University of Central Oklahoma refused to allow Christian speaker Ken Ham to speak at their school.
- Feb 14, 2018: Joy Behar said Christians are "mentally ill" because they claim Jesus talks to them.
- Feb 25, 2018: The 4th church in less than a month was defaced by Satanic and anti-christian graffiti
- Feb 26, 2018: A Christian student organization at Harvard University was placed on probation for reliving a bi-sexual woman of her leadership position, saying the group "gives hate a platform."
- Mar 1, 2018: Actor Chris Pratt tweeted prayers to comedian Kevin Smith, and atheists lashed out at him, criticizing him to keep his religion to himself, and also saying it’s inappropriate to solicit prayers online.
- Mar 1, 2018: The Freedom from Religion Foundation accosted governmental officials for having Billy Graham lie in state at the Capitol building.
- Apr 4, 2018: Geo. Washington Univ. offers a seminar on "Fighting Christian Privilege" in the country.


In other words, there isn't much physical persecution (if any at all), but there is a lot of intellectual persecution. Even on this forum Christians are often treated like idiots. I couldn't tell you how many times I get sworn at, called names, and treated like an imbecile just because I'm a Christian, and an evangelical at that.

> Does scripture say that when Jesus returns a lot of people won't be Christians and instead imply that most people are going to hell and possibly a lot of people will persecute Christians?

- Matthew 24.11-12, 37-39
- Mark 13.9
- Rev. 13.5-8
- and other places

> God is Not Dead

Yeah, I didn't like the movie.
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Re: Scripture about Christian's being persecuted

Postby New Account » Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:12 pm

Thank you for taking the time to write this information. Are you able to tell me where you get a lot of this information from? I'm curious whether it's more from church or is it based from the media you watch? Also, I'll try to read those verses later. Do they generally say all imply that Christians will be persecuted. Do you personally believe that Christians are a majority in America or not?

Just to respond to some of your sources. I wasn't aware that InterVarsity was banned from most college campuses. I could be wrong, but I think it's highly likely that Christian groups are the most common religious groups on college campuses in America (including compared to atheist ones).

As for the Joy Behar quote, I decided to just watch the clip, and I think most objectively she was degrading Mike Pence for hearing Jesus talk to him because she believes that mental illness. I don't think that's necessarily true. I think whether it's Allah or God talking to a religious believer and helping them through life, then it shouldn't be mocked. I think there were at least a couple Christians in that clip who tried to push back on her claim.

I don't think people should be fired for their religious beliefs, so I disagree with any discrimination for any reason other than a person being less effective at their job. For the baker case, I'm not sure that being sued for that situation counts as persecution from my perspective. Let's say 75% of America were part of an Atheist homosexual organization, and they refused to do simple services for Christians just because they do not want to support Christian behavior, then I would be inclined to agree that the Christians should sue those people because, for example, renting to a Christian person may allow them to make a Church, but members of society shouldn't police what someone does with what they rent or buy Church. So, in my opinion, anyone should be allowed to buy a cake and use it in their wedding. However, no priest should be forced to officiate a marriage.

As for the Harvard thing, I think it's wrong to kick someone out of their position if they doing their job, solely because of who they are attracted to. If she was trying to convince other members to become bisexuality then I would agree that she should have been fired. However, everyone has sins and struggles, and I think any organization that would kick someone for a position that they received fairly, then I would be more on the side of the student. This isn't the best analogy, but let's say that some atheists got together and decided that prayer has not been shown to scientifically help results of patients or research. So they decided that someone couldn't be a scientist or a doctor just because they were Christian even if they were a great doctor or scientist. I would say that this is wrong because it has nothing to do with their job. Assuming that the girl was doing her job, I don't think she should have been ousted for a private matter.
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Re: Scripture about Christian's being persecuted

Postby jimwalton » Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:12 pm

> Are you able to tell me where you get a lot of this information from? I'm curious whether it's more from church or is it based from the media you watch?

It's all from various media. I didn't get any of it from church.

> Do you personally believe that Christians are a majority in America or not?

Nominally, America is about 2/3 Christian. If we are only counting people who consider their lives to be dedicated to Christ and obedient to him, the percentage falls to about 17.

> I wasn't aware that InterVarsity was banned from most college campuses.

It has been a struggle for the IV groups and becoming more common. I don't know the exact percentage of banning. They have been confronted with campus banning issues for about 10 years and have been excluded from some big campuses, including Tufts, Vanderbilt, University of Buffalo, and about 40 other campuses. On some campuses they have sued (successfully) to remain on campus. On some they have sued and lost (such as Vanderbilt).

> Joy Behar

It's hard to sort out her anti-Pence and anti-Christian intent. When Oprah said she wouldn't run for president until God told her to, Behar didn't utter a peep (probably because she is pro-Winfrey). But then again, Oprah's not a Christian. I can't psychoanalyze Behar, but she did imply (if not say) that claiming that Jesus talks to you is akin to mental illness, which many Christians to offense to.

> For the baker case

The baker case has been heard by the US Supreme Court. A verdict is due in June. It will be interesting to hear.

> Harvard

It's my understanding that the woman was allowed to remain in her position as long as she remained chaste. So the group didn't discriminate on the basis of her sexual orientation. They had a policy, and when she started dating another woman, she violated the policy and was relieved of her position. The group was subsequently labelled a "hate group" and placed on probation.
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