Board index God

How do we know there's a God? What is he like?

God is not righteous

Postby Tick » Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:36 pm

Gods logic: mock me (blasphemy) and you go straight to hell as blasphemy is the eternal sin, but ill forgive you if you commit murder, rape, paedophilia, genocide etc . Christians, how is this righteous?

Mark 3:28-30: "Truly I tell you, all sins and blasphemes will be forgiven for the sons of men. But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven, but is guilty of an eternal sin.

as you can see on Mark 3:28 the bible talks about how all sins are forgiven except the mockery of god. this was one of the many verses that got me thinking and questioning the bible and god when i was a Christian. this led me to hearing out the opposition, atheists like sam harris stephen fry, dawkins , hitchens, neil tyson etc. after hearing them out for weeks i became an atheist who still had respect for the church and the people who believed in god, after gettin involved in politics i came to really resent the concept of god and its people.

mark 3:28 is one of the verse that i love to debate with theist just to see what they can come up with or to challenge their critical thinking and perhaps make them just question the bible for once. so my question is how is Mark 3:28 acceptable to you?
Tick
 

Re: God is not righteous

Postby jimwalton » Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:48 pm

To start off, you have "God's logic" incorrectly. God never says that blasphemy sends you straight to hell, but only that perpetual blasphemy does. Secondly, blasphemy is not an eternal sin, but only perpetual blasphemy. Only the person who will never back off from his blasphemy is guilty for never backing off. Third, any sin can be forgiven except sins that a person doesn't want to be forgiven for. The good news of the gospel is that you don't have to be perfect or even be deserving of God's grace to receive it. But that doesn't mean God is a push-over.

So let's talk about your specific text, Mark 3.28. You'll notice right away in verse 28 that even blasphemy can be forgiven, so your post is off the wrong start from the whistle. But all sins are not equal. Some are worse than others, so Jesus is issuing a warning to be careful what you do. At the same time Jesus is offering a gift: you can be forgiven, no matter what you've done. It's quite an offer—the path to heaven is open to all because it has nothing to do with being worthy or deserving.

The sin that cannot and will not be forgiven is the sin of never wanting to be forgiven. Forgiveness is free for the asking, but those who won't ask won't receive. It's as simple as that. If you never stop rejecting Jesus, then you will always be guilty of your sins.

Even though in the Old Testament blasphemy was a capital crime, Jesus isn't calling for the deaths of his accusers. Instead we hear a message of grace. Even what you are saying can be forgiven if you will just turn from it.

There's no notion here that Jesus is speaking about a single event of blasphemy, since he just said in v. 28 that those are forgivable. It's the sustained stance of opposition to God that will keep you away from God.

Will God forgive even murder, rape, paedophilia, and genocide? Anyone who sincerely repents can be forgiven, but remember that in heaven (as well as in hell) people will be held accountable for what they did. There are degrees of reward in heaven just as there are degrees of punishment in hell. So we're not to think that God is a softie or is unrighteous.
jimwalton
Site Admin
 
Posts: 5814
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:28 pm

Re: God is not righteous

Postby Tick » Tue Nov 06, 2018 5:11 pm

"Truly I tell you, all sins and blasphemes will be forgiven for the sons of men. But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven, but is guilty of an eternal sin."

is pretty clear what that verse says. god can forgive blasphemy of man but not of the holy spirit which i assume is synonym for god.
Tick
 

Re: God is not righteous

Postby jimwalton » Sat Dec 01, 2018 7:55 am

OK, let's talk. What the text says is, "Truly I tell you that all the blasphemies that are blasphemed to the sons of men will be forgiven. But whoever blasphemes to the Holy Spirit will never have forgiveness to the aeons. He is liable for (guilty of) eternal sin."

Ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν ὅτι πάντα ἀφεθήσεται τοῖς υἱοῖς τῶν ἀνθρώπων, τὰ ἁμαρτήματα καὶ αἱ βλασφημίαι ὅσα ἐὰν βλασφημήσωσιν· ὃς δ’ ἂν βλασφημήσῃ εἰς τὸ πνεῦμα τὸ ἅγιον, οὐκ ἔχει ἄφεσιν εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα, ἀλλὰ ἔνοχός ἐστιν αἰωνίου ἁμαρτήματος.

Let's break it down. Whenever Jesus starts his sentence with "Ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν" (Truly I say to you; in the old King James it was "Verily I say unto you"), we know we're coming into something important. The form is like that of an oath, so serious stuff.

"All the sins"—plural and meant to encompass the whole set: whatever fits the category of sin in any way.

"and the blasphemies that are blasphemed"—This is malicious, slanderous contemptuous talk, any kind of insults or making someone look bad, as they are doing to Jesus in this text, accusing him of doing miracles by the power of Satan. If he were just a human being, such things could be forgiven.

"to the sons of men," in other words, towards our fellow human beings.

"will be forgiven"—These incidents are open to forgiveness. There is no portion of the Bible that does not include some picture, story, or direct teaching on the concept of forgiveness. It is central to the message of Scripture. God forgives our sin. There will be justice, but there is always a possibility for forgiveness.

"But whoever"—just as general as before. This part is as open to anyone as verse 28.

"blasphemes against the Holy Spirit"—Now we're on a different level. People who malign God, falsely accuse God, and talk trash about God (which I see often on this forum, by the way), are in a different category of guilt. This is what they were doing to Jesus in this text: accusing him of being in league with the devil. It was a malicious and slanderous lie, designed to denigrate him. If he were just a human being, such things could be forgiven. As God, this is an expression of defiant hostility in the face of his good miracles, good teaching, and general good works. It's a perversion of truth, a defiance of the obvious, and a conscious and deliberate rejection of the person of Jesus. It's not a single event, but a timeless one (aorist tense)—a sustained stance of denial, rejection, and denigration. It can be (and is) committed today just as easily as then. We must all be careful in how we treat Jesus and God.

"will never be forgiven". The "never" is in the emphatic position. For anyone who will forever not want God, God will forever not forgive them. The punishment fits the crime.

"He is guilty of an eternal sin." The "eternal sin" speaks of the consequences of the sin, not the nature of it. It is everlasting in its guilt and consequences for as long as it is everlasting in its infliction.

So, as I said, it's not blasphemy that is the eternal sin, but perpetual blasphemy, the settled stance of hostility to God, the condition of never backing away from slandering God.

> the holy spirit which i assume is synonym for god.

Close enough. The Holy Spirit here is considered to be the inward source of Jesus's acts (as opposed to the devil, of which he is being accused). Jesus was doing things by the power of God, the Holy Spirit in Him, not by the power of the devil.

The point of the text is the inconceivable greatness of God's forgiveness for whoever will ask for it, but for those who refuse to ask and who continue to slander God, there is no forgiveness possible. There can be no forgiveness for this rebellious defiance because the person doesn't want forgiveness.


Last bumped by Anonymous on Sat Dec 01, 2018 7:55 am.
jimwalton
Site Admin
 
Posts: 5814
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:28 pm


Return to God

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


cron