by jimwalton » Tue Jun 28, 2016 8:20 pm
You're confusing yourself. Your original question was, "Can Christians talk to God?" The answer, which you said yourself, is "Of course they can." Then I mentioned that there are nuances to what we mean by "God hears prayers." Of course He hears all prayers; if He didn't, we could say there are some things He didn't know, such as what that pagan over there just prayed. But God DOES know that. He knows what's on that person's mind, and the prayer He was just thinking and maybe also speaking. That's different from how God "hears" the prayers of Christians, a term you use "listening" for, with which I'm fine. You can use that term if you like to understand exactly what I'm talking about, that God hears the prayers of His people differently than He "hears" the prayers of the unrighteous. You say God "hears" every prayer, but He only "listens" to the prayers of His people. I was saying exactly the same thing. You realize that, don't you?
> There is only one way God hears and listens to His people and that is through prayer.
I disagree. God hears the desires of our hearts. God hears and knows our very thoughts. God even hears our unspoken prayers.
> I disagree that God listens to every prayer.
You're creating your own categories of definition here. "Listened" and "heard" are used synonymously in Ps. 66.19. The point of v. 18 is not that God doesn't hear them, but he doesn't respond to them. They carry no weight that He would answer them. To entertain sin is to create a barrier in the relationship. God expresses the same thoughts in Isa. 1.11-17. Cf. also James 4.3.
The argument Jesus makes in John 9.31 says the same thing. Jesus heals a man who had been born blind, and the Pharisees contend that a sinner (assuming Jesus is such a sinner) has no access to the power of God (v. 16). Jesus is restating that argument in v. 31, agreeing that sinners don't have access to the power of God. It doesn't mean God doesn't hear their prayers, but that He doesn't respond with a visitation of power in response to them. (Ultimately his point is that since he was able to effect the healing, it means he's not a sinner.)
You're confusing yourself. Your original question was, "Can Christians talk to God?" The answer, which you said yourself, is "Of course they can." Then I mentioned that there are nuances to what we mean by "God hears prayers." Of course He hears all prayers; if He didn't, we could say there are some things He didn't know, such as what that pagan over there just prayed. But God DOES know that. He knows what's on that person's mind, and the prayer He was just thinking and maybe also speaking. That's different from how God "hears" the prayers of Christians, a term you use "listening" for, with which I'm fine. You can use that term if you like to understand exactly what I'm talking about, that God hears the prayers of His people differently than He "hears" the prayers of the unrighteous. You say God "hears" every prayer, but He only "listens" to the prayers of His people. I was saying exactly the same thing. You realize that, don't you?
> There is only one way God hears and listens to His people and that is through prayer.
I disagree. God hears the desires of our hearts. God hears and knows our very thoughts. God even hears our unspoken prayers.
> I disagree that God listens to every prayer.
You're creating your own categories of definition here. "Listened" and "heard" are used synonymously in Ps. 66.19. The point of v. 18 is not that God doesn't hear them, but he doesn't respond to them. They carry no weight that He would answer them. To entertain sin is to create a barrier in the relationship. God expresses the same thoughts in Isa. 1.11-17. Cf. also James 4.3.
The argument Jesus makes in John 9.31 says the same thing. Jesus heals a man who had been born blind, and the Pharisees contend that a sinner (assuming Jesus is such a sinner) has no access to the power of God (v. 16). Jesus is restating that argument in v. 31, agreeing that sinners don't have access to the power of God. It doesn't mean God doesn't hear their prayers, but that He doesn't respond with a visitation of power in response to them. (Ultimately his point is that since he was able to effect the healing, it means he's not a sinner.)