by jimwalton » Wed Mar 19, 2014 5:29 pm
Well, you gave me a lot to respond to. I'll try.
DEFINITELY the kingdom and the second coming are two different things. Definitely. The kingdom of God exists on earth at present, in a less-than-perfect presence, in the form of the church, under the new covenant, as you have said and rightly understood. When Jesus comes back (the dramatic return), he will establish his kingdom in its fullness on the earth.
The End Times is a deep and complicated study. it's one of the reasons Jesus said to study it, but we'll never figure it all out. We were given signs, not the whole map. Many different words and concepts are used, and many scholars try to piece the puzzle together with very deep study. They do good work, though the facts can still be elusive.
In Luke 3.9, the reference is a rebuke to Jews who think they get an automatic ticket to heaven because of their heritage. John is telling him that the only free ticket is through the Messiah, Jesus, and unless they repent of their sins and turn to Jesus, they will be judged just like anyone else.
You're right that Jesus often speaks in metaphors, parables, and riddles. Even his miracles are often "parables in life," with what is actually going on in real time and space being a metaphor or parable of a spiritual truth. We always have to be looking and reading below the surface and in the context when it comes to Jesus.
In Luke 12.54-56, Jesus is saying that we all become at least minimally proficient at observing certain signs about the weather and being able to tell to some extent when it's going to rain or clear up, or whatever. The problem Jesus was addressing is that despite even rudimentary capabilities for such things, they were not able to tell that God was standing right in front of them teaching them the mysteries of the ages. Jesus sees an obvious disconnect where there should obviously not be one. With the training they've had, the opportunities to connect with God, and the insight they claim, if their relationship with God had just a mustard seed of reality, they would be able to do this. Their spiritual blindness is telling, and he calls them on it. Why? Because they’re the leaders.
As far as Luke 21.25-6, oh, there will definitely be signs. But it just tells us "there will be signs in the sun, moon, and stars." They may be "natural" occurrences, though (like, oh who knows, a meteor hitting the earth, or a earthquake/volcano event), and people will say they're just natural disasters. But people who are looking for the signs may be scanning the heavens for Jesus. They can't be sure, but they'll be alert. That's what I meant. It's a sign, but not a certain marker.
You've asked a lot in one question. Ask more. I'm glad to talk to you all you want.
Well, you gave me a lot to respond to. I'll try.
DEFINITELY the kingdom and the second coming are two different things. Definitely. The kingdom of God exists on earth at present, in a less-than-perfect presence, in the form of the church, under the new covenant, as you have said and rightly understood. When Jesus comes back (the dramatic return), he will establish his kingdom in its fullness on the earth.
The End Times is a deep and complicated study. it's one of the reasons Jesus said to study it, but we'll never figure it all out. We were given signs, not the whole map. Many different words and concepts are used, and many scholars try to piece the puzzle together with very deep study. They do good work, though the facts can still be elusive.
In Luke 3.9, the reference is a rebuke to Jews who think they get an automatic ticket to heaven because of their heritage. John is telling him that the only free ticket is through the Messiah, Jesus, and unless they repent of their sins and turn to Jesus, they will be judged just like anyone else.
You're right that Jesus often speaks in metaphors, parables, and riddles. Even his miracles are often "parables in life," with what is actually going on in real time and space being a metaphor or parable of a spiritual truth. We always have to be looking and reading below the surface and in the context when it comes to Jesus.
In Luke 12.54-56, Jesus is saying that we all become at least minimally proficient at observing certain signs about the weather and being able to tell to some extent when it's going to rain or clear up, or whatever. The problem Jesus was addressing is that despite even rudimentary capabilities for such things, they were not able to tell that God was standing right in front of them teaching them the mysteries of the ages. Jesus sees an obvious disconnect where there should obviously not be one. With the training they've had, the opportunities to connect with God, and the insight they claim, if their relationship with God had just a mustard seed of reality, they would be able to do this. Their spiritual blindness is telling, and he calls them on it. Why? Because they’re the leaders.
As far as Luke 21.25-6, oh, there will definitely be signs. But it just tells us "there will be signs in the sun, moon, and stars." They may be "natural" occurrences, though (like, oh who knows, a meteor hitting the earth, or a earthquake/volcano event), and people will say they're just natural disasters. But people who are looking for the signs may be scanning the heavens for Jesus. They can't be sure, but they'll be alert. That's what I meant. It's a sign, but not a certain marker.
You've asked a lot in one question. Ask more. I'm glad to talk to you all you want.