by jimwalton » Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:12 pm
I’m not going to go blathering about with “Here’s what I think,” and “My opinion is…” There is far too much of that going on in the Christian world. I want to let the Bible speak for itself. That, as I have said, is how God reveals himself, and where his voice is most of the time.
I’ll start with John 1.18: “No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father’s side, has made him known.” I think it’s safe to say that “everyone” in history has wanted what you want: SHOW ME THE MONEY! “Let me see God.” Luke 10.24 says, “For I tell you that many prophets and kings wanted to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.” People wanted to see definitive evidences of the existence of God. So in the days of Egypt and the wilderness wanderings, God did exactly that. Instead of helping, everything got worse. OK plan B: Instead of direct manifestation, God sent messages through humans. They killed them. OK, plan C: God wrote stuff down for posterity. People don’t believe it. But, Luke 10.24, they still wanted direct manifestation. OK, Plan D: So we come to Jn. 1.18. So God came, as a human, at a point in history. “Oh, but I want him in MY point of history.” Geez, we can’t win this game, can we? Even when he was here, people didn’t believe him, and they mocked him, and killed him. But Jn. 1.18 still stands (since it was written down for posterity: Nobody gets to see God. Even the OT manifestations were partial and veiled. But that was THE POINT of Jesus. OK, you want to see? “Here I AM.” Oh, you want him to live for 5,000 years, and always be around for every generation, and be able to be everywhere in the world so everybody gets a chance to have him as their neighbor? SERIOUSLY?? Instead he came, and lived, and it was written down. That way (1) everybody can read and know about it, and (2) he can be around for every generation and in every neighborhood, and (3) he sent a spiritual presence of himself. On to conversation, then, about the Holy Spirit.
Romans 8.15-16: The Holy Spirit doesn’t give concrete, Oh-now-I-can-touch-Him, evidence of God. His presence confers on us our status as “Now I belong to God.” The point is that we are no longer alienated from him, but reconciled and reunited.
Romans 8.26: The Spirit intercedes for us. Everything God does is geared for our success. Even in our attempts at a relationship with Him, we struggle with our own limitations and inadequacies. God himself, as the Spirit, does everything possible to help us out.
1 Corinthians 2.10. The Holy Spirit reveals things to us. God reveals himself to us primarily through his Word, and it is through the Spirit that we can grasp it (1 Cor. 2.12-14). It’s what I said before.
The Holy Spirit doesn’t make God show up in front of our eyes, “Oh, hi there. Didn’t see you at first.” His presence in us is the marker of God’s new life in us (2 Cor. 1.22), and His work is mainly in our hearts, not in our circumstances (Jn. 16.8).
The revolutionary Spirit that was given at Pentecost (Acts 2)? Law of First Occurrence. God makes a splash, it’s written down, and then He goes back to hidden working in hearts, because that’s the only thing that works. Law of First Occurrence, you want to know about. The first time something happens, God is there in spades, to let us know what is going on and what he thinks. After that, He’s back under the radar.
• Nadab & Abihu Lev. 10
• When they stoned that guy for picking fruit on the Sabbath Num. 15.32-36
• Achan Josh 7.
• Ananias & Sapphira Acts 5
• Cain Gn. 4
• Commissioning of Paul & Barnabas Acts 13: Send out missionaries
• choosing David as king 1 Sam. 13: a man after God's own heart
We want this stuff all the time, but it makes things worse, not better, when God is flopping all over the place. Besides, it takes away our humanity, and, just as importantly, is changes the relationship from one of love to something completely different and awful. Can’t work, won’t work, doesn’t work, God won’t stoop to it.
“We’re all alone on this planet”? You think a world with God is a torturous, stupid existence, but I observe in you that a world without him is lonely, meaningless, and vile. Nothing means anything, we live for ourselves, we suffer for meaningless reasons, and we die angry and alone. What do you really gain for there NOT being a God?
I’m married to a wonderful woman, but she sure has her problems. I don’t have the right to say, “I’ll only love you if you are this, and that, and if you this and that, and your personality is as I think it should be.” That’s ridiculous. But you’re saying you’ll only recognize God if he is everything you want him to be, that you are the one who gets to decide what he should be like, and you’ll only accept him on those terms. We don’t get to decide that about our jobs, our courses, our friends, our families, or our spouses. Why in the heck should we get to decide what God should be like, and He has to exist on our terms? I think your frustration that he’s not what you want him to be is making you think a little irrationally. The world doesn’t work that way (“Well, I’ll only blah blah if the weather is nice for 10 days straight, and it only rains at night, and …”). Why is God the only victim of your rage when you can’t control any of your other relationships like that?
I’m not going to go blathering about with “Here’s what I think,” and “My opinion is…” There is far too much of that going on in the Christian world. I want to let the Bible speak for itself. That, as I have said, is how God reveals himself, and where his voice is most of the time.
I’ll start with John 1.18: “No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father’s side, has made him known.” I think it’s safe to say that “everyone” in history has wanted what you want: SHOW ME THE MONEY! “Let me see God.” Luke 10.24 says, “For I tell you that many prophets and kings wanted to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.” People wanted to see definitive evidences of the existence of God. So in the days of Egypt and the wilderness wanderings, God did exactly that. Instead of helping, everything got worse. OK plan B: Instead of direct manifestation, God sent messages through humans. They killed them. OK, plan C: God wrote stuff down for posterity. People don’t believe it. But, Luke 10.24, they still wanted direct manifestation. OK, Plan D: So we come to Jn. 1.18. So God came, as a human, at a point in history. “Oh, but I want him in MY point of history.” Geez, we can’t win this game, can we? Even when he was here, people didn’t believe him, and they mocked him, and killed him. But Jn. 1.18 still stands (since it was written down for posterity: Nobody gets to see God. Even the OT manifestations were partial and veiled. But that was THE POINT of Jesus. OK, you want to see? “Here I AM.” Oh, you want him to live for 5,000 years, and always be around for every generation, and be able to be everywhere in the world so everybody gets a chance to have him as their neighbor? SERIOUSLY?? Instead he came, and lived, and it was written down. That way (1) everybody can read and know about it, and (2) he can be around for every generation and in every neighborhood, and (3) he sent a spiritual presence of himself. On to conversation, then, about the Holy Spirit.
Romans 8.15-16: The Holy Spirit doesn’t give concrete, Oh-now-I-can-touch-Him, evidence of God. His presence confers on us our status as “Now I belong to God.” The point is that we are no longer alienated from him, but reconciled and reunited.
Romans 8.26: The Spirit intercedes for us. Everything God does is geared for our success. Even in our attempts at a relationship with Him, we struggle with our own limitations and inadequacies. God himself, as the Spirit, does everything possible to help us out.
1 Corinthians 2.10. The Holy Spirit reveals things to us. God reveals himself to us primarily through his Word, and it is through the Spirit that we can grasp it (1 Cor. 2.12-14). It’s what I said before.
The Holy Spirit doesn’t make God show up in front of our eyes, “Oh, hi there. Didn’t see you at first.” His presence in us is the marker of God’s new life in us (2 Cor. 1.22), and His work is mainly in our hearts, not in our circumstances (Jn. 16.8).
The revolutionary Spirit that was given at Pentecost (Acts 2)? Law of First Occurrence. God makes a splash, it’s written down, and then He goes back to hidden working in hearts, because that’s the only thing that works. Law of First Occurrence, you want to know about. The first time something happens, God is there in spades, to let us know what is going on and what he thinks. After that, He’s back under the radar.
• Nadab & Abihu Lev. 10
• When they stoned that guy for picking fruit on the Sabbath Num. 15.32-36
• Achan Josh 7.
• Ananias & Sapphira Acts 5
• Cain Gn. 4
• Commissioning of Paul & Barnabas Acts 13: Send out missionaries
• choosing David as king 1 Sam. 13: a man after God's own heart
We want this stuff all the time, but it makes things worse, not better, when God is flopping all over the place. Besides, it takes away our humanity, and, just as importantly, is changes the relationship from one of love to something completely different and awful. Can’t work, won’t work, doesn’t work, God won’t stoop to it.
“We’re all alone on this planet”? You think a world with God is a torturous, stupid existence, but I observe in you that a world without him is lonely, meaningless, and vile. Nothing means anything, we live for ourselves, we suffer for meaningless reasons, and we die angry and alone. What do you really gain for there NOT being a God?
I’m married to a wonderful woman, but she sure has her problems. I don’t have the right to say, “I’ll only love you if you are this, and that, and if you this and that, and your personality is as I think it should be.” That’s ridiculous. But you’re saying you’ll only recognize God if he is everything you want him to be, that you are the one who gets to decide what he should be like, and you’ll only accept him on those terms. We don’t get to decide that about our jobs, our courses, our friends, our families, or our spouses. Why in the heck should we get to decide what God should be like, and He has to exist on our terms? I think your frustration that he’s not what you want him to be is making you think a little irrationally. The world doesn’t work that way (“Well, I’ll only blah blah if the weather is nice for 10 days straight, and it only rains at night, and …”). Why is God the only victim of your rage when you can’t control any of your other relationships like that?