Thanks for writing, Craig. It’s always good to have healthy discussion and a good understanding. I’m glad you’re giving me the opportunity to clarify some things I said.

First of all, I didn’t say that there are no more miracles, or even the possibility for any. Just so that is understood.

I think we can safely agree (and correct me if I’m wrong), that a miracle is a supernatural exception to the regularity and predictability of the universe, and therefore it is not a common (this term needs to be interpreted) occurrence.

I think we can also safely agree that the quantity of miracles that were flowing from the hands of Jesus during his three years of ministry did not continue after his ascension. Yes, the apostles did miracles, but not to the extent and quantity that Jesus did. The “Jesus era” was unique in the proliferation of miracles. Are we together on this?

Now, if you agree with those two premises, you agree with the essence of all that I said: (1) The Jesus era was unique and not ultimately normative, (2) but miracles or the possibility of them still continue. But let’s look at the particulars of what you said.

There was no particular promise that what was happening from the hands of Jesus would continue, after he ascended, in the same form. Jesus himself noted that things would continue, but it would be different. For one, the Holy Spirit would come, but his role in the world would be different than the role Jesus played, and (2) the disciples would carry on the ministry of Jesus, but not the way Jesus did it. At its core, it doesn’t matter if that’s depressing to you; it’s what has been revealed to us. Ultimately we are not after what makes us feel good, but what is true.

Then, you want to know, why did Jesus make such blatant and outrageous promises (Jn. 14.12-15; 15.7; Mk. 11.22-25; 1 Jn. 5.14)?

Jn. 14.12-15: The “even greater things.” Robertson, Vincent, Keener, and Morris all agree: Not necessarily greater miracles and not greater spiritual works in quality, but greater in quantity. Jesus’ work in the flesh was a local ministry. For example of greater works, see Peter at Pentecost and Paul’s missionary tours. Jesus’ words are an invitation to radical faith. The emphasis is on the mighty works of conversion. V. 13: The greater works are founded in our prayers. The prayers God will answer pertain to the greater works, and the Father completing the work begun in His Son. Tenney says, “This should not be construed as a guarantee to fulfill every whim of a petitioner, but rather to complete the revelation of the Father that was begun with the incarnation. The answers to prayer in the name of Jesus are the Father’s works which take place through him.”

Jn. 15.7: “Ask whatever you want and it will be given you.” Robertson says, “This astounding command and promise is not without conditions and limitations. It involves such intimate union and harmony with Christ that nothing will be asked out of accord with the mind of Christ and so of the Father.” And Pink comments, “This is not a signed, blank check. Such would often be dishonoring to God as well as injurious to ourselves. The conditions of the promise are maintaining a heart communion with Christ and a life regulated by the Scriptures.”

Mark 11.22-25: Your faith will move mountains. In your earnest praying, there comes a point where God tells you what he is going to do. At that point, you live as if it’s a done deal, no matter how great or seemingly ridiculous it is. And as you act in faith, believing, and walk in that faith, so shall it be done. At that point the fulfillment may still be difficult, and it may be trying to you, but your duty is to persist in faith; God will move the mountain as you continue to pray and to live in Him with an undivided heart and a firm perseverance.

So you see, there are great and wonderful promises here, but not the kind that people usually associate with miracles. I actually find it exciting, not depressing. The truth of the texts is that God is not Santa Claus, giving you your every whim, but the power of the Spirit will be in you, and you will be functioning as God’s ambassador on this earth, not as your human self. You have the same power working in you that raised Jesus from the dead, but please don’t leave the faith when you ask a mountain to move and it still sits there. There are great forces at work in this world that we can’t see, and we have the privilege of siding with the Omnipotent One. Our commission is to make disciples whether or not that includes any works of power. I sense that you would agree with this.

I might say, and I'm not trying to be a smart-aleck, that if you honestly believe that these statements were meant to be taken at face value, with no particular conditions, then please, PLEASE, hurry to the nearest hospital and say a simple prayer that they ALL be instantly healed. And if your response is, "Well, that's not that way it works...", then you see my point. That's NOT the way it works, and that's what I'm trying to explain.

And, just to make it perfectly clear, despite your frustration in the first paragraph, I do believe that all of Scripture is true. We don’t cut out anything. But when Jesus said, “Just ask and I’ll give it to you!”, none of us are naive enough to think we just grab that piece, walk away with it, and expect that I’m in charge of what I get! I think we ALL understand that this more proverbial than it is a direct promise. For instance, we have proverbs such as “Fools rush in,” and “he who hesitates is lost.” They contradict each other, but they are each true in their certain situations. We have to be discerning to know when it will be true. In that same sense, this proverb is true in situations where it is true, and not in others. Thus, it is a truism, not a promise. You know what I mean? God isn’t Santa Claus, but he responds to our prayers. It’s generally true, when God does provide for your food and clothes (though there are times when he does not), when God gives you good gifts (though there are times when such gifts are withheld), and when God chooses to perform a miracle (though such things don’t happen as often as we want, right?).

Why would Jesus say such things? To let people know that God is not mean or cruel, that He does take care of us and provide for us. But it’s not to say that every request gets answered, every need is provided for, and everything sought is found. I’m confident you’ll agree.

I agree with you that the kingdom of God had both a present and future aspect. But I am also confident that the “present” form of the kingdom had different manifestations when Jesus was on earth and after he left. The kingdom aspects he spoke of in the parables and in the Sermon on the Mount are still applicable, but they don’t play themselves out now the way they did when Jesus was around. My goodness, he provided food (Mt. 6) by great catches of fish and feeding the 5000. He still provides food, and sometimes seemingly miraculously, but it’s different from when he was here. That’s all I’m saying.

After Jesus ascended and the Spirit came in power on Pentecost, things did not revert to “life as usual.” No, the world was forever changed, and would forever function differently. But I still contend that its manifestation now is different from what it was when Jesus himself walked the earth. Now we are his hands and feet, and we are his body, yet the Body is also pervaded by weeds. Even those who don’t belong to God’s kingdom do God’s work and manifest miraculous signs (Mt. 7.21-23).

Why did Jesus say it was better for him to go away (Jn. 16.5-7)? Because there is a better education in discipleship than that which can be supplied by a visible master, whose will for his disciples can never been misunderstood. The braver and more perfect disciple is he who can walk by faith, and not by sight only. Jesus was restricted by body and space and geography. The Spirit knows no such limitations that Jesus took on by taking on flesh. That doesn’t necessarily mean, in the context of our discussion, that there would be miracles, but it doesn’t mean they would stop, either. It doesn’t comment one way or the other to that issue.

Jn. 14.12: As I commented before, the “widespread agreement” was Robertson, Vincent, Keener, Morris, and Tenney, along with Joni Eareckson Tada, an individual who, if anyone, might like to interpret this as miracle-working power. As a matter of fact, none of the commentaries in my possession interpret it as referring to miracles. So I stand with the consensus of evangelical scholarship, and invite you to do some research yourself. Certainly v. 11 speaks of miracles, but as signs of Jesus’ claims about himself.

I do not claim in what I wrote that there have been no supernatural occurrences throughout Christian history. I acknowledge the testimony of Martyr, Iraneaus, Augustine, and the others. My problem is this: people turn away from the faith because God won’t do a miracle for them, in their situation, and my teaching is: the commitment is not to the SIGN, but to the SON. Focus on HIM, not on YOU. You may never get a miracle. They are not promised to us all. The point is not what God will do for YOU, but to establish a relationship of love towards God in response to his love for you.

Talk to me more, Craig, as you wish.

"...when Jesus left, the things he did and taught became ideals that were unattainable until the kingdom of God finds its fulfillment again." How depressing! If this is so, why did Jesus and then his apostles make such blatant and outrageous promises? (John 14:12-15; 15:7; Mark 11:22-25; 1 John 5:14) I struggle with the audacity of those promises and why they do not seem to be always fulfilled, but if all of Scripture isn't true, what are we to believe and what do we cut out?
Jesus tied His miracles in to the coming of the Kingdom (Matthew 4:23; 9:35; 11:4-6; Luke 7:18-23; 9:11; 10:9; 1 Corinthians 4:20), a huge theme in Scripture. The Kingdom was inaugurated by Jesus and has present (Matthew 6:10; 12:28; Luke 10:8-9; Acts 8:12; Colossians 1:13) and future aspects (Matthew 25:34; 26:27; Luke 1:33; 2 Timothy 4:18). Why would Jesus speak of the kingdom in present aspects in such places as the Beatitudes and parables, if these were only applicable for the next twenty or even eighty years? For example, Jesus says that at the end of the age He will send His angels to gather stumbling blocks out of the kingdom (the kingdom going on up to that point). Jesus' followers preached that the kingdom is here now. Does it seem logical that they would preach the good news of a supernatural kingdom that would only last a generation or two and then things would go back to the way they had always been?

If this is so, why did Jesus say that it was better for Him to go away? (John 16:5-7). Almost always whenever Jesus and His followers speak about the Kingdom, there is an undertone of great excitement. In Acts 2, Peter sees the events of Pentecost as a "this is that" fulfillment of Joel's prophecy which includes miraculous signs. It is seen as the beginning of great things, not something that would end in decades, but last until Jesus' return.

You say that there is "widespread agreement" (it depends to whom you listen) that John 14:12 does not refer to miracles, but in context (and as the listeners would have assumed) it does. Mark 16 clearly points out that Jesus' followers will do miraculous things and, even if one disallows the passage as Scripture since it is not in all manuscripts, it shows the beliefs prevalent at the time.

Contrary to what you indicate, there have been large number of supernatural occurances throughout Christian history. For example, healings and prophecy are mentioned by Justyn Martyr, Iranaeus, Augustine and other church fathers, the Scottish Covenanters such as John Welch and Robert Bruce, and in numerous instances in the twentieth and twenty-first centuries (examples are too numerous for this already over-long post).

You are right to caution about false prophets and teachers (since Moses time and before) performing supernatural wonders (2 Thess. 2:9; Matthew 7:22; 24:24) and the tests you give are good, but the counterfeit points to the likelihood of the genuine, as well. As you point out, the numerous reports of documented miracles (some of which are recorded and of children whose reactions couldn't be faked) in Mozambique, Brazil and other places through people who exalt Jesus Christ should cause us to pause and consider hmmm. Of course, we should never demand the miraculous, but Is God just choosing to do these things there, or can it be our lack of faith is keeping us from some of His good gifts?

First of all, we wouldn't call them "miracles" if they happened all the time. Well, people do use it loosely for any unexpected event: "I got a green light when I was in a hurry. It was a miracle." Blah blah. A real miracle is the kind of thing we all know can be once in a lifetime, or once in a century, or only every 1000 years. Real miracles, the way we define it for real, hardly ever happen, and that's why we consider them miracles. So the easy answer to your question is that we really don't expect to hear about miracles very often, because they're, uh, miracles.

Aside from that, it's obvious that there were two particularly unique times in history blossoming with an abundance of miracles: the Exodus (the stories are primarily in Exodus and Numbers), and the 3 years of Jesus' ministry. But, as you know, one of those stands out more than the other: There has been no time in history like the three years Jesus was in ministry. He was healing people by the THOUSANDS (other than Jesus' ministry, there are only about 7 healings in Scripture over a 2000 year period). He was doing miracles of unparalleled awesomeness: water to wine, walking on water, stopping a storm with his words, etc.

So I can say this with ultra confidence: What was happening when Jesus was on earth was particularly unique to Jesus being here. The era of Jesus cannot be taken as standard—“the Christian life as it normally is.” Christians find great comfort in the promises of Jesus, not realizing that are from a time when the “Kingdom of God is at hand” (Matthew 4.17). The three-year ministry of Jesus was the Kingdom of God as intended and played out in real life, and when Jesus left, the things he did and taught about became ideals largely unattainable until the kingdom of God finds its fulfillment again. What he taught about “seek first God’s kingdom and you’ll never go hungry or naked” (Matthew 6) and “ask whatever you want in prayer and you’ll get it” are among hundreds of such teachings that just don’t work the same way without Him around.[1] The thousands of healings and sometimes daily miracles characteristic of his ministry are obviously not characteristic of history since his ascension. All of his teachings represent an ideal of how things work in the kingdom when the King is here, but since we’re in an era between manifestations of the kingdom, it doesn’t usually work that way for us and we shouldn’t expect it to.[2] We have to understand all of Jesus’ teachings in that context. There was no expectation or specific teaching that things such as miracles would continue in the same way they did after Jesus left.

Other verses indicate things will change when Jesus is no longer here on earth:

Mt. 9.15 (Mk. 2.19-20; Lk. 5.34-35): "How can the guests of the bridegroom mourn while he is with them? The time will come when the bridegroom will be taken from them; then they will fast."

Lk. 17.22: "The time is coming when you will long to see one of the days of the Son of Man, but you will not see it."

Jn. 9.5: "While I am in the world, I am the light of the world."

These verses don't specifically say that there won't be any miracles after Jesus leaves, only that things will be different after he leaves. Jesus taught that after he left his followers were to make disciples and be his witnesses, not especially transform the planet through the doing of miracles.

Now, there are two further things I have to show you. It's true that in Jn. 14.12 Jesus says we will do greater things than what he did. There is widespread agreement that Jesus was not necessarily talking about greater miracles here. He is talking about spiritual ministry in greater quantities. His work in the flesh was a local ministry, and that was continued in greater fashion by Peter at Pentecost and Paul's missionary journeys, for example. The kingdom of God continues to advance through the ministry work of His servants, reclaiming the earth as his own and reconciling the world to Himself.

The other "further thing" is that there is a specific gift of working miracles (1 Cor. 12.28-29). So we know that the Age of the Miracle Worker ended with Jesus' ascension, but the age of workers of miracles may continue. Again, due to the definition of the word "miracle" we can say that very few are given this gift, and that it is not often given.

There are claims, however, of people who have the gift, even today. Look at this recent article in Christianity Today (http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/201 ... bique.html) about Heidi Baker in Africa. It's very intriguing. Things that make you go hmmm...

We must be discerning, however. 2 Thes. 2.9, as well as Mt. 7.22 & Mt. 24.24, tells us that people who are not of God and who are not honoring God will also have the ability to do miracles. We have to be very watchful, though, and not just assume that because someone can do miracles they are of God. There are at least five biblical tests of a God-given power to do miracles:

1. The miracle glorifies God (Mt. 5.16).
2. The miracle stems from a righteous source (Mt. 7.15-16; Acts 8.6).
3. The miracle rings true to the Holy Spirit (1 Cor. 12.10). See Acts 13.6-10.
4. The miracle stands the test of external verification (Lk. 17.14; Lev. 14).
5. The miracle builds up the church (1 Cor. 12.28).

Does this help?

I was just thinking, it seems in the days of Jesus there were more "miracles", right then and there. For instance the blind can see, water to wine. Maybe we do not hear of them now.