by jimwalton » Wed May 15, 2019 2:27 pm
Very interesting video. Thanks for the link. I have a few comments.
Since we don't know when the Flood was and have no reliable timeline to gauge it, it's quite impossible to say. I will say a few things, though.
Genealogies in the ancient world were viewed differently than we view them. They never tried (or thought they should) include every generation. They were often telescoped (many generations left out) for their political or religious purposes. You can't just "do the math" and come up with the date, which is what the video has done. We already have a problem.
Historians and biblical scholars generally put the Tower of Babel at 3000-2500 BC, in that range, and even as late as 2100. The Flood would have been well before that, but the Bible doesn't take a position on when the Flood was. Northern Shinar was settled starting around 5000 BC, so a date of the flood at 3000 is difficult to sustain. Nor do I agree that all the population of the world was living in Sumer at the time, nor that they all spoke one language. The Bible doesn't claim that. It speaks of the then-known world, and the Hebrew for "common speech" was "one set of words," which can be interpreted many ways.
Also, in a review of evidence from China, Japan, Australia, Thailand, North America, Mexico, and elsewhere, there is firm archaeological ground to support the conclusion that long before the tower of Babel men were scattered over the entire globe speaking a multitude of languages. That would give evidence that this story is not describing the origin of all languages, but rather a localized confusion of a major language in Mesopotamia—the land of Shinar.
He talks about Peleg in Gn. 10.25, but Gn. 10.5 speaks of multiple languages, as does 10.20, before Peleg. Nor is it "clear," as he marks it, that Peleg's name has to do with the Tower of Babel. There are multiple theories:
1. Refers to the division of the peoples of the earth as a result of the confusion of the languages at Babel. (Keil & Delitzsch, Morris, Whitcomb, Aalders, Leupold, Ross, Sailhamer, Hamilton, White, Jewish sources, Davis)
2. The Continental drift (Donald Grey Barnhouse, Northrup)
3. Widespread canalization of the land of Mesopotamia.
4. Semitic groups were divided into two branches: Pelegites and Joktanites
Though the Babel option is the most widely accepted and makes the most sense, it's not necessarily "clear."
Also, I don't believe in a global flood, but a massive regional one. "All" and "every" often don't mean globally "all or "every" in the biblical text (Gn. 41.57; Dt. 2.25; see also Acts 17.6; 19.35; 24.5). To me, putting the Flood at around 5500 BC, and it being regional makes more sense.
He correctly says that the Samaritan text, the LXX, and Paul all say that the 430 years includes the years in Canaan. But we have to be honest that the chronology of the era is extremely difficult to pin down, and many different positions are defensible.
I think he's making a decent case, but it's not as solid as he perceives it to be.
Very interesting video. Thanks for the link. I have a few comments.
Since we don't know when the Flood was and have no reliable timeline to gauge it, it's quite impossible to say. I will say a few things, though.
Genealogies in the ancient world were viewed differently than we view them. They never tried (or thought they should) include every generation. They were often telescoped (many generations left out) for their political or religious purposes. You can't just "do the math" and come up with the date, which is what the video has done. We already have a problem.
Historians and biblical scholars generally put the Tower of Babel at 3000-2500 BC, in that range, and even as late as 2100. The Flood would have been well before that, but the Bible doesn't take a position on when the Flood was. Northern Shinar was settled starting around 5000 BC, so a date of the flood at 3000 is difficult to sustain. Nor do I agree that all the population of the world was living in Sumer at the time, nor that they all spoke one language. The Bible doesn't claim that. It speaks of the then-known world, and the Hebrew for "common speech" was "one set of words," which can be interpreted many ways.
Also, in a review of evidence from China, Japan, Australia, Thailand, North America, Mexico, and elsewhere, there is firm archaeological ground to support the conclusion that long before the tower of Babel men were scattered over the entire globe speaking a multitude of languages. That would give evidence that this story is not describing the origin of all languages, but rather a localized confusion of a major language in Mesopotamia—the land of Shinar.
He talks about Peleg in Gn. 10.25, but Gn. 10.5 speaks of multiple languages, as does 10.20, before Peleg. Nor is it "clear," as he marks it, that Peleg's name has to do with the Tower of Babel. There are multiple theories:
[list]1. Refers to the division of the peoples of the earth as a result of the confusion of the languages at Babel. (Keil & Delitzsch, Morris, Whitcomb, Aalders, Leupold, Ross, Sailhamer, Hamilton, White, Jewish sources, Davis)
2. The Continental drift (Donald Grey Barnhouse, Northrup)
3. Widespread canalization of the land of Mesopotamia.
4. Semitic groups were divided into two branches: Pelegites and Joktanites[/list]
Though the Babel option is the most widely accepted and makes the most sense, it's not necessarily "clear."
Also, I don't believe in a global flood, but a massive regional one. "All" and "every" often don't mean globally "all or "every" in the biblical text (Gn. 41.57; Dt. 2.25; see also Acts 17.6; 19.35; 24.5). To me, putting the Flood at around 5500 BC, and it being regional makes more sense.
He correctly says that the Samaritan text, the LXX, and Paul all say that the 430 years includes the years in Canaan. But we have to be honest that the chronology of the era is extremely difficult to pin down, and many different positions are defensible.
I think he's making a decent case, but it's not as solid as he perceives it to be.