In Matthew 3.16, who is seeing the Spirit?

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Expand view Topic review: In Matthew 3.16, who is seeing the Spirit?

Re: In Matthew 3.16, who is seeing the Spirit?

Post by Camper » Fri Jul 28, 2023 7:28 pm

Gotcha, makes sense!

(Interestingly, the gospel of Matthew and the gospel of John seem to disagree about whether John knew who Jesus was prior to baptism. Matthew implies that he does, John straight up says that he didn’t know, that the point of the dove was to show him.)

Re: In Matthew 3.16, who is seeing the Spirit?

Post by jimwalton » Tue Jul 11, 2023 12:39 pm

The text in Matthew allows that anyone who was there was able to see the dove. This is not a contradiction to John 1.32 where John the Baptist claims to have seen the Spirit descend on Jesus. John uses a different term than Matthew, in 1.32, using Τεθέαμαι, the perfect middle indicative of θεάομαι. Where εἴδω denotes seeing something physically, θεάομαι includes more of a sense of contemplating what one is seeing. This would lead me to believe that Matthew is speaking of people actually seeing the dove, whereas John 1.32 is referring more to what John the Baptist was interpreting the event to mean.

Re: In Matthew 3.16, who is seeing the Spirit?

Post by Camper » Tue Jul 11, 2023 12:30 pm

The reason I ask is because the Gospel of John, as well as the similar transfiguration event, seems to imply it was John who saw, but Mark changes it to “You are my Son,” which implies that the “he” is Jesus, that this is about showing Jesus something about himself.

Thank you for answering substantively!

Re: In Matthew 3.16, who is seeing the Spirit?

Post by jimwalton » Tue Jul 11, 2023 12:10 pm

The original language does not clarify. The term is simply εἶδεν, the aorist active indicative 3rd singular of εἴδω, "he saw," without giving clue as to whether this is Jesus or John being spoken of.

Kittel, in the Theological Dictionary of the New Testament, Vol. 5 p. 353, says that the term εἴδω can only refer to non-visionary seeing, suggesting that it was physically visible, not some kind of mystical event, indicating that John and Jesus, along with anyone else who was there, would have been able to see the dove.

Presumably it would have taken spiritual insight, however, to know and interpret that this was a symbol of the Spirit.

In Matthew 3.16, who is seeing the Spirit?

Post by Camper » Tue Jul 11, 2023 12:09 pm

In Matthew 3:16, does original language clarify who is indicated as seeing the Spirit?

“And when Jesus had been baptized, just as he came up from the water, suddenly the heavens were opened to him and he saw God’s Spirit descending like a dove and alighting on him.”


Which “he” saw the Spirit: John or Jesus?

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