Fallible doctrine

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Re: Fallible doctrine

Post by jimwalton » Wed Jun 11, 2014 5:33 pm

Now that I agree with. The Bible is not general instructions for everyone, but the covenant (legal contract) between God and humanity. The contract has been drawn, notarized, and signed in blood. In the contract God has revealed himself, and in Jesus (Heb. 1.1-2) he has said everything he wanted to say. The "in these last days" of Heb. 1.2 gives the air of fulfillment and finality. Many take the words of John in Revelation 22.18 to apply not just to the apocalypse, but to the whole, as a fitting culmination of the revelation to humanity. It is finished.

Re: Fallible doctrine

Post by William Hendershot » Wed Jun 11, 2014 5:26 pm

So the general instructions for everyone are set in stone and can never updated by God? There is no possibility that God will ever provide a new revelation meant for everyone?

Re: Fallible doctrine

Post by jimwalton » Tue Jun 10, 2014 10:28 am

I certainly hope not. When God spoke his word through a prophet, it was a different kind of revelation. Such a difference is acknowledged by Heb. 1.1, 2 Pet. 1.20-21, and 2 Tim. 3.16. The revelation to these men carries an authority distinct from when "speaks" to anyone else. His revelation to the prophets and apostles is meant for the ages as the revelation of his covenant and his person (Eph. 2.20). Any messages for you and me are in a different sphere.

Re: Fallible doctrine

Post by William Hendershot » Tue Jun 10, 2014 10:23 am

It seems like you're applying a double standard.

Re: Fallible doctrine

Post by jimwalton » Tue Jun 10, 2014 8:36 am

Yeah, I'm aware of all the dream revelation in the Bible, and that's legitimate. And I do believe that God speaks to people now. It's just awfully difficult to tell whether it was really a message from God, though, and one must proceed very carefully. We can so easily deceive ourselves. But I'm convinced that the revelations to the prophets/apostles were a very different entity/experience.

Re: Fallible doctrine

Post by William Hendershot » Tue Jun 10, 2014 8:32 am

I was planning to list the people in the Bible who God spoke to in a dream, but the list would be way too long and too much trouble. Just do a Bible search for the word "dream" and you'll see.

There are many examples of people who honestly believed (believe) that God spoke to them. They were acutely aware that their message had its source in God and carried divine authority. Most of them were dismissed or ignored, and some of them started new religions or added to existing ones. Some of them are included in the Christian Bible.

Re: Fallible doctrine

Post by jimwalton » Mon Jun 09, 2014 10:13 am

As far as we can tell, God didn't speak to the prophets via voices in their heads, that they said, "Hm. I guess God is talking to me." 2 Peter 1.20-21 tells us that the prophets didn't get their messages from inside themselves but from an external source, with the Holy Spirit bolstering them to deliver their messages. Inspiration in the ancient world was often associated with spiritual possession, frenzy, and ecstatic utterances. In contrast to what people knew of such practices out there in the world, associated with alleged divine oracles, Peter is saying that divine revelation was clearly not that. He claims that they were acutely aware that their message had its source in God and carried divine authority.

Re: Fallible doctrine

Post by William Hendershot » Mon Jun 09, 2014 9:52 am

Why are the prophets, and many other authors of the Bible who were spoken to in a dream, exempt from what you wrote above?

Re: Fallible doctrine

Post by jimwalton » Sun Jun 08, 2014 4:38 pm

Sure. He might. But we still must be interpreters of our thoughts, since we can so easily fool ourselves, and we must be interpreters of circumstances, since we're downright terrible at interpreting our circumstances. Aside from the word of the Lord to prophets, we all have to be smart about our own tendencies, "seeing what we want to see," and prayer. People think God "spoke to them" in prayer. Yeah, better subject it to checks and balances. People interpret their circumstances favorable to see an answer to prayer—extremely unreliable. Unless it's clear, learn to steer.

Re: Fallible doctrine

Post by William Hendershot » Sun Jun 08, 2014 4:35 pm

Do you believe that God might answer the prayer of the Pope asking for clarification on a divisive issue?

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