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[Graham Cracker]

I’ve seen quite a bit of support for the president amongst the evangelical and church community. I’m agnostic so I’m just seeing things from an outsider perspective, but why do you think the lack of critique for Donald trump is the way it is from church leaders? He seems like an embodiment of every single one of the 7 deadly sins. He’s using the Bible as political props now, and seems objectively clueless on any real semblance of Christ like behavior. I’m curious how that support or lack of critique runs so parallel with the many of the Christian churches.

At what point does political belief intersect with spiritual for you? Is there a red line? How can you know when that’s been crossed?

[jimwalton]

I don't have unwavering support for Trump. Throughout his presidency, I find that I agree with about 75% of his policies. To the contrary, however, it's my observation that he's a very immoral and godless man. His mannerisms are off-putting, and I find his behavior upsetting because of the immorality. I've never observed anything in him that I would label as Christ-like.

When Obama was president, I disagreed with just every single decision the man made. A horrific national leader, if you ask me.

Trump? I agree with about 75% of what he's done, and dislike almost all of who he is as a person.

> At what point does political belief intersect with spiritual for you?

At every point. Our spiritual lives intersect with every area of life. It's not a separate category in any sense of the word.

> Is there a red line? How can you know when that’s been crossed?

Morally, he's always on the other side. The man is a moral dungeon, imho. Policy-wise, I'm mostly pleased.

[Graham Cracker]

So policy that is beneficial to you personally is what determines your vote? Or does the moral character determine it? Why one over the other? Does his divisiveness as a whole not factor into your vote and support? I’d say the more Christ like way to go about that decision should based on the larger sum of a people, the oppressed are the ones that are affected by his leadership, but what do I know, I’m a heathen agnostic . It seems like your are just compartmentalizing a person into a split categories with policy vs moral repugnance. One of those must weigh more heavily on your decision for support with a vote. I suspect it is the selfish reasoning, policies that benefit you. It would appear that you are able to dismiss the appalling leader that is leading this country vs applying your Christian values to how you cast your vote.

[jimwalton]

> So policy that is beneficial to you personally is what determines your vote? Or does the moral character determine it? Why one over the other?

Lots of things determine my vote. I'm not so simplistic as you seem to imagine. Personality, morality, positions on issues, and experience all play a role in my consideration.

> Does his divisiveness as a whole not factor into your vote and support?

I find his divisiveness problematic, but I find the divisiveness of Democrats problematic also. Many people in politics are divisive: Trump, Pelosi, Clinton, Schumer, Nadler, Schiff, Waters; and I find many journalists divisive. Trump certainly doesn't have a corner on that market.

> I’d say the more Christ like way to go about that decision should based on the larger sum of a people

I'm not sure I know what this means. My decision should be based on a larger sum of people?

> It seems like your are just compartmentalizing a person into a split categories with policy vs moral repugnance.

Not at all. You're judging me based on a handful of sentences, and it seems that you have me pegged quite inaccurately.

> I suspect it is the selfish reasoning, policies that benefit you.

Wrong again. I work hard so that my focus is what's best for the country and what's best for the world. My personal benefit doesn't have a lot to do with it. When I said I agreed with his policies, that's no particular reflection that these decisions were particularly beneficial to me. I don't know what would make you rashly jump to that wrong conclusion.

> It would appear that you are able to dismiss the appalling leader that is leading this country vs applying your Christian values to how you cast your vote.

Wrong again. Your batting average is pretty low. In some senses he's an appalling leader, in other senses he's a vast advantage over Obama, who was simply awful. Bush before him was so-so. Clinton before him was terrible as well. I certainly am not so naive, foolish, narrow-minded, and selfish as you are painting me to be.

[Restraint]

"A moral dungeon", that's a great expression Why was Obama so bad for the US? From outside he seemed like the most decent president in who knows how long.

[jimwalton]

He opened up stem-cell research, and I see a moral problem there.

He liberalized abortion policies, and I am against abortion.

The Affordable Care Act was a failure. What a mess.

His Benghazi cover-up was inexcusable.

He repealed the Mexico City policy, which I disagree with.

Twice he opposed a pain-capable abortion ban (20-weeks' gestation), which is horrible.

His stimulus spending of $3T vanished into thin air or was wasted on foolish projects.

The IRS under his leadership targeted and was biased against conservative groups

Hilary Clinton's secret web server. 'Nuff said.

Operation Fast and Furious, arming Mexican drug lords.

The Iran Nuclear Deal. Ugh.

Rejection of Israel in favor of Islamic thugs

A reckless increase of the national debt.

Eric Holder's "Smart on Crime" drug-sentencing policy where most drug cases weren't charged.

Released $50B of frozen Iranian asset, lifted economic sanctions against iran, and released terrorist prisoners back to Iran.

Failed to disclose to Congress the existence of secret side deals on nuclear inspections.

He allowed the Iranians access to our financial system to change currency into Euros and then lied to Congress and the American people that they hadn't done. I disagree with both the allowance and with the deceit.

He gave away more than half a billion dollars in his last days in office to questionable international causes, including $221M to Palestinians.

Nov. 13, 2016, one week *after* Trump was elected, and only 2 months before leaving office, he agree with the PM of Australia to release 1250 Mid-Eastern thugs for transport back to the mid-East.

His Clean Power Plan accomplished nothing.

His broad expansion of the food stamps program rewarded 45M people to not go back to work.

He banned giving local police military equipment to do their job (after the Fergeson riots).

DACA. Stupid program.

Commuted the sentence of Chelsea Manning, a traitor.

Project Cassandra. He gave a free pass to Hezbollah drug-trafficking and money-laundering operations to help ensure the Iran nuclear deal would stay on track.

Spygate.

These are only a small handful. The man was ABOMINABLE, in my opinion. One of the worst presidents ever.

[Graham Cracker]

The fact stem cell research is a huge moral problem for you, when it’s aim to to help other people’s physical bodily ailments says all I need to know about your views on humanity. Let’s hang out in the dark ages, keep it up there qanon.

[jimwalton]

You are very quick to judge based on close to zero information. After much research on my part, I've learned that it is the assessment of the medical and scientific community that adult stem-cell research has a much greater percentage of effectiveness and better results. The science bears out that adult stem-cell research shows far more promise than fetal stem-cell research, and it doesn't require the destruction of fetuses. So don't put me in the Dark Ages. I'm siding with modern science.

[Graham Cracker]

You are only vocal about the divisiveness of one party though, you dismiss all faults of your party. Can you make a list of things you don’t like of DT? Have you tried? I think fundamentally we don’t see politicians in the same light, your responses exhibit a cognitive dissonance on the subtext so we couldn’t possibly agree here on anything. I am not of any particular party affiliation but I can tell you trump is a textbook sociopathic narcissist and I can also tell you joe Biden probably doesn’t know where he is right now. I can critique both. You say you can to, but would anything ever go too far with DT where you could leave your political loyalty to side with a moral/political rejection? Trumps suggestion that he could murder someone on 5th ave and he’d not lose supporters is correct and people such as yourself are evidence of it.

[jimwalton]

> You are only vocal about the divisiveness of one party though, you dismiss all faults of your party.

Once again you are prejudging me with close to zero information. I most certainly don't dismiss all the faults of the Republicans. They have plenty.

> Can you make a list of things you don’t like of DT? Have you tried?

Yep. He's dishonest. He's a liar. He has an abysmal command of any facts. He's an immature, name-calling bully. He's an adulterer. He's a horrible public speaker. He is the cause of many of the problems his enemies are more than glad to give him. He's made some stupid decisions, like hiring Sebastian Gorka, reducing foreign aid, reducing funding to the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. He made it illegal for consumers to file class-action suits against banks. He undid the Internet Privacy rules, and many more things.

> your responses exhibit a cognitive dissonance on the subtext

Whaaaaaat? Your prejudice is palpable. You could hang it on the wall it's so thick.

> I can tell you trump is a textbook sociopathic narcissist

I agree. He's horrible.

> joe Biden probably doesn’t know where he is right now.

I agree. The man is clueless and can't put a sentence together.

> Trumps suggestion that he could murder someone on 5th ave and he’d not lose supporters is correct and people such as yourself are evidence of it.

Again, false assumptions of me and pure out prejudice and false accusations. You need to gather more information before you judge people.