Board index ‹ Specific Bible verses, texts, and passages ‹ 2 Corinthians

[Count Daku]

Hello, I recently finished reading the Book of Job, and from what I’ve read, Job wasn’t necessarily a real person but the Book of Job was a sort of teaching lesson.

I’m now reading 2 Corinthians and in 12:7, the NIV Study Bible states that the “messenger of Satan” was God permitting “Satan to afflict Paul as He did Job.”

So that seems to indicate Job was a real person. Was he? Are there other instances of God testing faith (I know he did Abraham) especially in the New Testament? Is there an explanation on why He does this?

[jimwalton]

> Job wasn’t necessarily a real person but the Book of Job was a sort of teaching lesson.

That is my position as well. I do not believe that Job was a real person. I think the book of Job is a theological treatise on the subject of the Retribution Principle and God's righteousness in the face of human suffering. It is wisdom literature, not historical literature.

> NIV Study Bible states that the “messenger of Satan” was God permitting “Satan to afflict Paul as He did Job.”

That is a comment of the scholars writing those study notes. Even if the book of Job is didactic, the point still carries that Paul was feeling afflicted in the same way that the book of Job talks about.

> So that seems to indicate Job was a real person.

Remember, that is the note of scholars, not of the God-breathed Word. I think there several reasons we can take the book of Job to be fictional:

• No historical setting
• Complete idealization of the "hero" (Job)
• Inverse similitude: Preciseness of details strike as unrealistic (seriously, exactly twice as many kids at the end of the book from the beginning?)
• The characters speak only in poetry
• Dialogue: the repetition (exact) is unrealistic to real life.
• The symmetrical arrangement of the speeches suggests a treatise, not a historical narrative. In history, things don't happen so cleanly.
• The dialogue in heaven could not have been eyewitnesses. Scenes in heaven are rare in biblical literature

> Are there other instances of God testing faith (I know he did Abraham) especially in the New Testament?

Just about every interaction Jesus has with his disciples in the Gospels is to test their faith.

> Is there an explanation on why He does this?

Testing is the path to growth. We know this from every coach, every teacher, and in anyone who takes lessons of any kind.

[Count Daku]

Really appreciate your response, and I had moments of “duh!” when reading it. Your last line seems so obvious in retrospect, can’t believe that wasn’t on the forefront of my mind. Thank you!

[Super Freak]

If we extend that 'logic' then God would have to be allegory too since He had an interaction with a make-believe Job.

[jimwalton]

Uh, no, that logic doesn't follow. If J.R.R. Tolkien tells us a story about Middle Earth and Frodo as an allegory of Christianity, can I rightly assume that if Frodo doesn't exist, then Tolkien doesn't either?

Suppose I write a fiction book and put myself in the book as the main character. I battle dragons and woo princesses, and I am a beneficent ruler of the Blue Kingdom. Am I (the real me) fictional also? Of course not.

Jesus told parables that He himself was one of the characters in. We are not right in claiming, "Then Jesus didn't exist. He told a fake story that He was in." That doesn't follow.

[Super Freak]

The first two are based on a false equivalency fallacy and do not warrant a response.

How would Jesus using a parable of something He is (ie, the Sower) be evidence that can be used to draw to the conclusion that He doesn't exist? (You may need to check your sentence in case you made a grammatical error which changed the meaning of what you wished to convey.)

[jimwalton]

Possibly I misunderstood your accusation (and correct me if I did), but it seemed to me you were claiming, "God could not or would not place Himself as a character in a story that was fictional." I used Jesus's parables as an example He did indeed place Himself as a character in fictional stories—to make a point. That doesn't make God an allegory, any more than it makes Jesus an allegory when he inserted Himself into parables.

So I misspoke when I said that means Jesus "didn't exist." You're right. But it also does not lead to the conclusion that "God would have to be an allegory too since He had an interaction with a make-believe Job."