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[Tiger]

> I've already told you, but I'll say it again. In John 10.30, Jesus says "I and the Father are one." It is a clear statement of deity.

How is that a clear statement of Jesus' deity? What am I missing? I have shown you this before: John 17:22 "I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one(hen) as we are one(hen)--"

The word ONE in John 10:30 is the same word in John 17:22. Jesus prayed to Yahweh that his disciples be one just as they are one and they be one in them. So how does John 10:30 indicate that Jesus is equal to the Father? In that case, Jesus' disciples are equal to the Father.

> "If Jesus were God, he's still not God's equal." Ya lost me.

1 Corinthians 8:5 "For though there are things that are called "gods," whether in the heavens or on earth; as there are many "gods" and many "lords;"

There are many gods and many lords. Even if Jesus said that his is god, that doesn't make him to be the Almighty God. We have only one true God and that is the Father(YHWH).

Angels were called gods. Psalm 8:5 "For you have made him a little lower than God(mê-’ĕ-lō-hîm/angels), and crowned him with glory and honor."

Satan was called god. 2 Corinthians 4:4 "in whom the god(theos) of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving...."
Men were called gods and sons of the Most High(YHWH). Psalm 82:6 "I said, "You are gods(’ĕ-lō-hîm), all of you are sons of the Most High."

Moses was made like a God. Exodus 7:1 "Yahweh said to Moses, "Behold, I have made you as God(’ĕ·lō·hîm) to Pharaoh;"

You, Christians, are changing the meaning of the word "God". You think that it is only applies to YHWH, it is NOT. Like I have said it before, even if Jesus called himself God(which he never did), that doesn't mean he is equal to YHWH. If that the case, then men are equal to the Father. Angels are equal to the Father. Satan is equal to the Father. So, how many gods do you have?

Look. It was nice discussing this with you but I really don't know what more I can say. I have shown you places where YHWH explicitly said that no one is his equal and you have posted where you THINK that the New Testament implies that Jesus is equal to YHWH.
You are saying "No YHWH is lying, he didn't know what he was talking about. There is someone equal to him.". So you are not arguing with me but to God. Have a great day. May Yahweh bless you forever and ever.

[jimwalton]

> How is that a clear statement of Jesus' deity? What am I missing?

We've covered this ground already. John 10.30. The Greeks had more than one word for "one". If he had wanted to say they were one person (Jesus, Jesus, and the HS), he would have used the word *heis*. But that isn't what he does. He uses the word *hen* (ἕν), meaning they are one in essence or nature. Look at the context around the verse. The Pharisees had accused Jesus of making himself equal with God as his own unique Father (Jh. 5.18). Jesus then admitted and proved the claim (5.19-30). Now he state it directly in this saying that he repeats later (17.11, 21). The Pharisees understand perfectly well what we means, and mean to kill him for blasphemy.

Jesus wasn't representing himself and God as one person (Jesus, Jesus, HS), but of inward unity and function. In the Bible, the Trinity distinguishes between the principle of divine action and the subject of divine action. The principle of all divine action is the one undivided divine essence, but the subject of divine action is either Father, Son, or Holy Spirit. The Father can send the Son according to his power, and the Son can be incarnated according to his nature without dividing the divine essence.

John 17.21. This is not to say that the unity between the Father and the Son is the same as that between believers and God, but it does mean that there is an analogy. The believers are to be one in character and spirit by virtue of a common faith, a mutual love, shared purposes and goals, and a collective direction.

> 1 Cor. 8.5

Paul denied the reality of the existence of these so-called gods and held that those who worshipped idols (non-entities) in reality worshipped demons or evil spirits, agents of Satan (1 Cor. 10.19-21). People are always claiming there are other gods besides YHWH, but there is only one true God, and he exists in three persons.

> Psalm 8.5

The reference of this verse is debated. Some think *elohim* refers to the angels, some to false gods, and some to YHWH himself.

> 2 Cor. 4.4

Yes, as you say, Satan is called "the god of this age." The phrase isn't used anywhere else in the NT, but Jesus uses the same idea in Jn. 12.31; 14.30, and Paul in Eph. 2.2; 6.12, and John in 1 Jn. 5.19. Satan is a false god, a pretender to the rightful throne of YHWH.

> Psalm 82.6; Ex. 7.1

Yep. Again, context is critical to understanding terms. We can't just assume a simple meaning to complex concepts.

> You are saying "No YHWH is lying, he didn't know what he was talking about

Now, now, I never said this and never would. Numbers 23.19 & Hebrews 6.18 says it's impossible for YHWH to lie. I'm just saying that one true God (one essence) exists in three persons (three spheres of divine activity).

Thank you for good dialogue. I appreciate it.