Board index ‹ Atheism

[Annetta]

We are looking at Atheists beliefs in our Sunday morning Bible Study. I was wondering if there is a topic on your website that addresses that; I do see other faiths listed but just wondered.

[jimwalton]

There wasn't an "atheist" spot on my website, so I created this one. When it comes right down to it, atheists really don’t have much of a belief system. I have challenged no fewer than 15 atheists in conversation to share with me what they believe and to give evidence for it, but I never got a thing in response. Nothing.

Mostly atheists don’t particularly say they believe in something particular, but instead merely claim that the evidence for God is not strong enough, in their opinion. Oddly enough, the evidence for God is fairly strong, and atheists can offer no evidence for anything they believe in rebuttal. I find it ironic that they are willing to believe a system for which there is no evidence over a system for which there is about 80% evidence.

If you ask me what an atheist believes, it would be a very short list. But here it is.

1. This world is all there is. There is no such thing as spiritual beings or forces, because they say there is no scientific evidence of spiritual beings or forces. When it comes right down to it, though, and atheist cannot prove that this world is all there is.

2. Atheists generally believe that the only way to know something is by science. If science can’t prove it, they will not believe it. At the bottom line, though, that is a philosophical belief, not a scientific one, so it is self contradictory.

And, that’s about it. That’s about all I have ever heard as far as a positive position of what atheists believe. And that is what they claim is a stronger case then the case for the existence of God. It is an extremely weak, unfounded position with no evidence to support it.

We can talk more.

[Anetta]

Thank you for this quick response. I appreciate the balance in it. My question (albeit ignorant), would be to ask if Christians have proof that there is life beyond this world except for the existence of Christ and all the historical evidence, even by non-Christians? I feel like, on one hand this is great; on the other hand it shows me what little I know about what other faiths believe, and what Christians believe with certainty.

Other resources, like Greg Stier of Dare2Share, whom I met years ago at the Niagara Conference and has a great website to come along churches, states that Atheists usually believe in the process of evolution but don't' accept the concept of an afterlife,..also makes sense since it includes a spirit being. They also hold to some kind of moral code, although they don't believe in a moral lawgiver(God), so not sure if that is a valid argument either.

------------

Greg Stier says that good questions to ask an Atheist is that if there is no God, shouldn't people be able to do what they want, even murder? If there is no God, then how can you explain a human's conscience(sense of good and evil)?

I am afraid that as much as I want to dialogue about the differences in Atheism and Christianity, I am still ignorant to have good follow up evidence for the Atheist since I do not know for sure how to articulate what I believe, and especially why, although I know without a doubt that I believe in the One, true God and Jesus Christ His only son.

Thanks for letting me ramble in the muddy waters!

[jimwalton]

You want to know about “proof that there is life beyond this world” and evidence of “the concept of an afterlife” and “spirit beings.” So let’s talk about that.

Here's a good starter for a conversation about the reality of the soul.

1. There is reason to believe we are more than just physical bodies because our thoughts and feelings don’t have any materiality. And if we admit that those exist but don’t have materiality, then we admit that non-material realities exist.

2. We have a sense of self that doesn’t particularly pertain to our physical bodies. Our sense of self (and our perception of self, not just in thought, but as an entity) gives evidence that we have a conception of an immaterial self. If we are aware of part of ourselves that isn’t physical, then we admit the possibility of non-material parts of us.

3. We have in our minds some idea about truth and falseness. Our perceptions of truth and falseness (which are necessary for scientific inquiry) betray a belief that among the random and chance happenings of evolution and naturalism, content (apart from natural phenomena that we can empirically experience) has arisen that we can trust to be reliably true. The reliability of cognitive content in addition to self-perception gives evidence that something besides pure materialism is present in our beings.

4. We can create a thought process that goes something like this:

a. Either you are a body and a soul, or you are just your body.
b. It is possible (by which I mean it is strongly conceivable, therefore I have good grounds to believe it is possible) for you to survive the death of your body (as evidenced by genuine "near death" experiences).
c. It is not possible for your body to survive the death of your body.
d. Therefore, you are not identical to your body.

The second part of your letter that I would like to comment on is that atheists “usually believe in the process of evolution.” This is correct. Since they are unconvinced about the existence of God, evolution is really the only other choice as to how things came to be. But, you should also know, about 35% of Christians believe in evolution, too. These Christians believe that evolution was the process God used to create.

Third, you mentioned Greg Stier’s observation about a lack of a ground for morality in atheists. I have talked to both camps, some of whom say that they have a morality based on a desire to survive, and that morality is a beneficial practice for the wellbeing of humanity. The others I have talked to agree that there is no such thing as morality, that life is completely meaningless, and raping a 5-yr-old girl is no different than getting a glass of water to drink. They are just physical actions. (Horrible.) Most atheists I have talked to are in the first camp: they believe in morality and moral action as contributing to the wellbeing and survival of the human species. So I would say Greg is giving a skewed picture of the reality.

We can talk more, as you wish.