Board index ‹ The Apostles – Jesus's Disciples

[Freddy John]

I am a former Christian, remember? I wish the gospel stories were true! Just give me some solid evidence for the extraordinary claims other than tradition and wishful thinking. As far as "decades is nothing," comparison with the era of television and archived media coverage to the times of the first Christians is not a good one. With regard to your final question, I would love for the gospels to be credible but, upon close examination, they appear to be largely mythological propaganda pieces. I personally haven't found a way around that blunt reality.

[jimwalton]

No, I didn't remember you're a former Christian. I don't always pay attention to or remember the flair.

> Just give me some solid evidence for the extraordinary claims

It depends what you count as evidence. You certainly know there is no evidence of Jesus' miracles, because oddly enough walking on the water doesn't leave behind an archaeological item to find, nor does reproducing bread. Mostly, as you know, people have undeniable, life-transforming spiritual experiences, and the reality of those experiences leads them to give credence to the stories of Jesus' miraculous signs. You obviously didn't have those experiences, but they aren't a matter of the science lab and controlled experiments.

Your interpretation of the Gospels is not a blunt reality, but a personal opinion. The events of the Gospels are not subjectable to scientific inquiry. That's the wrong unit of measure. I can't prove to you what Jesus said anymore than I can prove to my wife what I said 5 minutes ago, though she obviously hear it differently than I remember saying it! The history, geography, culture, and religious aspects of the Gospels are easily corroborated, but what you (I would guess) have a hard time swallowing is the miracle stories and Jesus' claim to deity. There's no science for those, any more than science can confirm that I saw a rainbow two weeks ago. So "close examination" doesn't cut it. This ain't science. The question boils down to, "Who is Jesus?" When a person becomes spiritually convinced that he is God, his incarnation, teachings, and miracles follow suit. If a person thinks it's all mythological propaganda, there is no science to prove or disprove any of it. What kind of a person was Alexander the Great? We can come up with a few descriptors, and we'll disagree with others who have access to the same limited material we all have. One man's credible is another man's propaganda. And why should we believe any of it? Most of it is probably from an anonymous writer, and we have no way to determine if the writer was biased or is telling the truth. The blunt reality is not that the record is lacking, but that you have chosen not to believe the only record we have.