Board index ‹ Jesus

[Craving Odd Stuff]

If Jesus knows all and is resurrected 100%, what sacrifice has He made?

His foreknowledge is perfect. His life is completely without sin. He sits at the right hand of God. He can't die. What sacrifice has Jesus made on the cross?

[jimwalton]

In the Old Testament (the preparation for Jesus's coming), sacrifice doesn't mean a loss. Instead it's a covering. Jesus's death must be seen against the background of the OT sacrificial system. Back then it was necessary for sacrifices to be regularly offered to compensate for (cover) the sins that had been committed. These sacrifices were necessary, neither to work a reformation in the sinner nor to deter the sinner or others from committing further sin, but to atone for the sin (cover it), which inherently deserved punishment. There had been offense against God’s law and hence against God himself, and this had to be set right.

The ‬Hebrew ‬word ‬most ‬commonly ‬used ‬in ‬the ‬Old ‬Testament ‬for ‬the ‬various ‬types ‬of ‬atonement literally means "‬to cover." The atonement seat on the Ark of the Covenant was the cover of the box. ‬One was delivered from punishment by doing a sacrifice so that one's sin would be covered. God then saw the sacrifice rather than the sin. The covering of the sin meant that the penalty no longer had to be exacted from the sinner.

Simply put, a sacrifice was offered as a substitute for the sinner. The sacrificial animal bore the sinner's guilt and covered his sin.

So, Jesus's sacrifice was to take our place (cover the sin), so God's wrath would be upon him and not us. So sacrifice is not about loss, is is about us being "covered".

Further, Jesus's resurrection didn't nullify the sacrifice. Flogging and crucifixion were horrific tortures. Flogging is said to have been an unparalleled brutality. Texts report that often bones were exposed or entrails were hanging out by the end of flogging. Many reputedly died from the flogging and never made it to the crucifixion. Crucifixion, on top of that—unspeakable. You think this was not a sacrifice? Would you volunteer for it if it was so insignificant (even if you'd be OK three days later)?

Theologically the difference is that the point of sacrifice is the gift and the dedication, not the perpetual cessation of life. While sacrifice was often to the death (rather than just "to the pain"), it was not always the case. There were grain sacrifices, and sacrifices where a goat was sent into the desert, for example. Because Jesus sacrificed his life and took it up again in 3 days doesn't mean the sacrifice was neither real nor illegitimate for the purpose at hand.

[Master of the House]

Why did god demand wanton murder of animals, an immoral act, to "atone" for things that we do that aren't even immoral? And even for things that are immoral, how does killing another living thing make amends for them? all it does is make another creature have a shitty life, instead of just the one whom you wronged in the first place.

Why not just forgive us for being flawed humans? after all, he created us that way. and he can do anything, so he could have just decided to forgive all of us, without any of the convoluted or immoral arbitrary steps like animal or human sacrifice.

[jimwalton]

> Why did god demand wanton murder of animals, an immoral act, to "atone" for things that we do that aren't even immoral?

Great question. Thanks for asking. The sacrifice of animals provided a very graphic and fitting symbol of what is really going on: substitutionary life for life, blood as the means of redemption. But don't think that it was wanton murder. After the sacrifice the people would get to eat the meat. Meat was not readily available for consumption in the ancient world, but in desert lands where vegetation could be scarce at certain times of year, meat was beneficial (perhaps even necessary) for survival. After an animal was sacrificed, the priests and the families would get to eat the meat (Lev. 3.11, 16; 7.15, for example) and use the animals parts for society (Lev. 7.8, for instance). In other words, it was just as much a Bar-B-Q as it was a cultic practice.

> how does killing another living thing make amends for them?

Animal sacrifices were an accurate picture of a theological truth. In our sin we brought death upon ourselves, but Jesus was going to die in our place to set us free from the power of death. By using animals before Jesus came, it showed in a very graphic display the awfulness that our sin caused (death), and how easily it would be overcome by Jesus (resurrection), paving the way for us to understand how Jesus's death worked to give us life.

> Why not just forgive us for being flawed humans?

There are real consequences for what we had done (sin). Those can't be simply ignored, any more than we can just say to Adolf Hitler, "You know what? Just forget about it. All is forgiven. We really don't care what you did. Let's eat."

> after all, he created us that way

This is a misunderstanding. Certainly we were created mortal and not divine (after all, divinity is uncreated, so it's not possible to create an uncreated being), but God intervened at the beginning to redeem us from our mortality and give us life as a free gift. So some of God's very first action were to make a way for us to be forgiven.

> and he can do anything

God's omnipotence doesn't mean he can do anything. There's a lot that God can't do. He can’t do what is logically absurd or contradictory (like make a square circle or a married bachelor). He can’t act contrary to his nature. Self-contradiction is not possible. He can only be self-consistent, and not self-contradictory. He cannot fail to do what he has promised. That would mean God is flawed. He cannot interfere with the freedom of man (Luke 13.34). If God can override human free will, then we are not free at all.

God's omnipotence means He is able to do all things that are proper objects of his power. It is no contradiction that God is able to bring about whatever is possible, no matter how many possibilities there are. The omnipotence of God is all-sufficient power. He can never be overwhelmed, exhausted, or contained. He is able to overcome apparently insurmountable problems. He has complete power over nature, though often he lets nature take its course, because that’s what He created it to do. He has power over the course of history, though he chooses to use that power only as he wills . He has the power to change human personality, but only as individuals allow, since He cannot interfere with the freedom of man. He has the power to conquer death and sin, and to save a human soul for eternity. He has power over the spiritual realm. What all of this means is that God’s will is never frustrated. What he chooses to do, he accomplishes, for he has the ability to do it.

So God can't just wave a magic wand and forgive you for your sin. Sin is real in the universe, and it has real consequences, and it has to be dealt with in reality. Sin brought death—a formidable force of reality. Death has to be dealt with by being destroyed, not by waving a imaginary magic wand.