Board index ‹ Jesus

[Fan Games]

Why do you think Jesus is God?

[jimwalton]

1. He was alive from eternity.
2. He was the agent of creation.
3. When on Earth He did things only God can do (forgive sins).
4. He identifies Himself as being of one essence with God.

[Tarnished]

> He was alive from eternity.

How do you know this? How can you ensure this is true?

> He was the agent of creation.

How do you know this? How can you ensue this is true? All the evidence we have, all that we know, about how the universe, galaxies, star systems and planets work, none of it has revealed an agent of creation, it's all well explained by natural processes.

> When on Earth He did things only God can do (forgive sins).

How do you know this? How would you ensure this is true? Also, if he created the notion of sin, and he is the ultimate judge of sin, of course he can forgive sin.

> He identifies Himself as being of one essence with God.

How do you know this? How can you ensue it is true? Could he not lie? Isn't it possible that he was either making it up, or mistaken?
I'm sure we all recognize that the bible makes these claims, but how do we know it's really true? After all, those are pretty extraordinary claims. Shouldn't we have something more that stories in a book if we are to believe such extraordinary claims?

[jimwalton]

> How do you know this? How can you ensure this is true?

The question was "Why do you think Jesus is God?", not "What evidence do you have for what you believe?" There is no evidence, and no possible evidence, for theological claims. In the case of Jesus, to me it all hangs on the resurrection and the evidence for the resurrection, but the resurrection is not why I think Jesus is God, so that wasn't part of my answer.

> All the evidence we have, all that we know, about how the universe, galaxies, star systems and planets work, none of it has revealed an agent of creation, it's all well explained by natural processes.

Actually, the universe is better explained by processes other than nature, and it's not "well explained" at all. There are many theories, many gaps in those theories, and many inconsistencies in those theories. At best, science can give a partial theoretical explanation of what is, whereas theism can give a complete explanation.

> if he created the notion of sin

God didn't create the notion of sin. Sin is the term was use to identify and label people's rebellion against God.

>> He identifies Himself as being of one essence with God.

> How do you know this?

Well, this one is as simple as reading. In John 10.30 Jesus claims to be one with the Father.

> Isn't it possible that he was either making it up, or mistaken?

Well, that's where you look at the resurrection. Anyone can say anything they want, but the guy who comes back from the dead gets my attention. I've been to lots of funerals; no one comes out of the coffin.

> I'm sure we all recognize that the bible makes these claims, but how do we know it's really true?

It all hangs on the resurrection, but the resurrection is not why I think Jesus is God. The resurrection gives evidence of the other items which actually *are* the reason I think Jesus is God.

> Shouldn't we have something more that stories in a book if we are to believe such extraordinary claims?

Of course we should. Christianity is a historical religion, not religio-philosophical mysticism. It's based on people's eye-witness accounts of historical events. Here, 2000 years later, it's cold-case investigation to us, but to them it was as current as Joe Biden vs. Donald Trump.

You could just as well say everything we know about Abraham Lincoln is just "stories in a book." Well, someone would say, we have the coat he was wearing when he was shot. Well, prove it. Well, someone told someone who told someone that was his coat. Well, someone supposedly kept it on the night he was shot. Well, prove it. Ultimately, you can't.

Extraordinary claims don't need extraordinary evidence, they just need reliable evidence from a reliable source.

Besides, none of this was the question on the table.