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[Filthy Creep]

So you die and go to Heaven, and maybe you're there for eternity, or maybe Jesus brings you back up out of the ground for "New Earth" for eternity, but either way, you're going to live infinitely. Do you seriously consider this? The billions of trillions of years all made of days and hours and minutes where you're just there, thinking?

[jimwalton]

Great teaser. First of all, I'd say "heaven" is going to be a whole lot different than your reductionism of "just there, thinking." Yeah, we'd all get bored with that one.

But what of the nature of life? Has a 10 year old had too much? Nah, we want more. How about a 40 year old? Nah, we want more. An 80 year old? If his or her body and mind were still sharp, they'd want more. People only want to die when there doesn't seem to be any sense to it any more. But what if in heaven there's ADDED sense to it? What if God starts creating again (since it is his nature), and there are more worlds to explore, and new worlds to explore, and every day something new is popping up (since God is infinite in his creative nature)? What if life has more sense to it all the time as we plunge deeper into God and his awesome works? Now, I know you're trying hard to push the envelope with "billions and trillions of years", but what if time is no more, and existence takes on a reality you can barely imagine now? Frankly, I can't wait. I know, you're still thinking that eventually, no matter what the stimulation, newness, and excitement, eventually you get bored with stimulation, newness, and excitement, right? Well, in this life we do, because ultimately, everything is the same and essentially meaningless. But what if, what if everything is essentially meaningful? Well, I'd do whatever it took to get there. Make any sacrifice, pay any price, and give my life to it.

[Filthy Creep]

So my last post may have been a little unhelpful.

Here we go: "more worlds to explore, and new worlds to explore and every day something news is popping up." Aside from the obvious fact that nothing is created out of nothing, there are currently many places and things you have not explored. How many continents have you explored? Are you currently an explorer?

"time is no more, and existence takes on a reality you can barely imagine now, "what if everything is essentially meaningful?" -- this is the type of meaningless language that can be used to avoid thinking about the reality of your beliefs. When your beliefs are so nonsensical, you have to revert to that stuff. "Time is no more," doesn't make sense, for example. Think about time. It's always the present. It has never been the past or future. We exist here in the present, and we continue to do so. That's how time is experienced. If you were somewhere else, next to god for example, you would be there. Imagine sitting there. You're sitting. You're still sitting. If you wanted to, you could count to yourself. That's time. You refuse to accept this, I'm sure, hoping the actual situation will be something you can't imagine.

"What if everything is essentially meaningful?" What do you mean by that? Anything can be meaningful to anyone here in the world of the living. Anything can also be meaningless. Are you saying in Heaven you're not free to find something meaningless?

[jimwalton]

I'm glad to respond, despite that you assume my beliefs are nonsensical.

While I'm quite aware that in science "matter can neither be created nor destroyed, but only changed in form," I'm also quite aware that current scientific theory holds that the universe had a beginning, and the state of "it" before the Bang cannot really be described as "it," because it is believed that before the Bang there was nothing: an infinitesimal singularity of (as far it is known) no dimension and no substance. So the scientists and philosophical scientists speculate. Ergo, something was created out of nothing, according to current understanding. Now that we have something rather than nothing, within the structure of our known universe, we have a reliable theory that matter can neither be created or destroyed, but only changed in form. If, however, the universe is an open system, and if there is a God, then that God is likely able to create something out of nothing.

Am I an explorer? I like to travel, and do adventure activities: white water rafting, cliff climbing, hiking, biking. Exploring our entire planet could take me more than several lifetimes. More creative substance to stimulate me is immensely intriguing.

"Time is no more" is far from meaningless language. Einstein showed us that time is not constant, but fluid and relative. It can slow down (this is known), but we can hardly press the math and reality into its extreme pockets. Can time stop? Thinkers speculate about time being a dimension, possibly as changeable as other dimensions, but these are speculations, though not idle ones. While you're quick to relegate my thoughts to nonsense, perhaps consideration of known scientific constructs and theories would open your mind to the intriguing possibilities. Irrefutably it's impossible for us to conceive of existence without length, width, and depth; envisaging a world without time is equally impossible, but science taunts us with alternatives that it's fun to wonder about. To shut it all down as nonsensical I find a bit close-minded. Einstein wrote, "People like us, who believe in physics, know that the distinction between past, present, and future is only a stubbornly persistent illusion." Theoretical physicist Lee Smolin, in his book "Time Reborn" speculates that time is not only real, but that it exists on its own, distinguishable from the other three dimensions. But then Smolin also expresses uncertainty that space is real. It's altogether possible that my thoughts are not as completely nonsensical as you are so eager to conclude.

"What if everything is essentially meaningful?" What I mean by that is that we all derive meaning by finding or creating a reference point by which we evaluate signification. It is my experience that all human being have an inherent awareness of meaning, and that life does or should have it. We either come to the place where we discover meaning in something (or someone), appropriate that meaning into our lives, and use it as a reference point for living, or, coming up empty-handed in the search, we fabricate a reference point, such as ourselves, to create meaning where we have found none. But suppose, as I do, that meaning is not just an fictional proposition we humans concoct to deal with life, but there really is meaning in the universe, a teleology of essence, that serves as a bona fide reference point that gives life its substance? In that case, life in heaven will include the removal of the false reference points, the partial ones, and the perceptions of such, and present to us the meaning built into the universe and existence, lifting us to a new mindset and worldview unencumbered by limited perspectives? That's what I'm talking about. Not a meaning that we generate here in the world of the living, but one integral to existence.

And, yes, I am saying that in heaven you're not "free" to find something meaningless, because there will be no such thing, just as in this life we are no "free" to find something not subject to the laws of physics at play in the universe.