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Heaven doesn't make sense to me
by Dank » Sun Mar 04, 2018 5:08 pm
I am a christian not a very good one with going to church and all that Ill admit but my main question that doesn't make any sense to me is with Heaven. How does it work/what is it. I keep hearing it refered to a place of peace and happiness but what is it? My main issue is it seems very similar to what non-believers believe in after death. It would be the same as nothingness. Your at peace and there are no problems and you are with your loved ones in a way. I don't know how to really describe it but how does it work. What is it? Will I be aware that I am there? I just have so many questions that make it so heaven doesn't make sense to me at all.
- Dank
Re: Heaven doesn't make sense to me
by jimwalton » Wed Mar 21, 2018 3:37 pm
Heaven is a "spiritual" realm that is not tainted by sin and is where God's presence dwells among angels. The Bible only ever discusses heaven in abstract and metaphorical terms because it's not exactly something we can easily understand. It's very different from our "physical" world. It is NOT a "place" exactly. It's not a part of our universe. And it does not "contain" God. Heaven was created by God just as our universe was.
Heaven is usually mentioned in the Bible in one of two ways.
On one hand, it's sort of a place that God rules from. The main idea is that God's presence and righteousness is there in full force. Jesus often talked about God's kingdom coming to Earth. We see Heaven as a place which is already entirely God's kingdom. And he is always being worshiped there, by angels. So presumably it's where angels generally exist- they're only ever seen on Earth when given a specific mission or responsibility here I suppose.
So then Heaven is also seen as sort of an... ideal place. It's synonymous with God's kingdom in a more general sense. That's why we say something like "Heaven come to Earth." Heaven and Earth are entirely separate. The point is that God's kingdom is coming to Earth. And in this same sense, Heaven is also used as a place that we want to go in the afterlife. (There's a lot of this in the Bible. See uses of "Zion" for a similar concept.)
The truth is, Biblical speaking, Heaven is NOT our ultimate destination. There's this idea that Jesus didn't come to lead us away from Earth and off to Heaven. He died physically and was raised back to life as something new... but still physical. Revelation talks about how there will be a New Heaven and New Earth in the end, that God will dwell here on Earth just as he dwells in Heaven, and that we will live (in resurrected bodies like Jesus') in New Earth. So the common equivalency between Heaven and the afterlife is a bit of a mistake. Heaven was being used in this sense to refer to God's kingdom in general, but it became twisted into this idea that we would just leave Earth and spend eternity in Heaven. That's not biblical. There is some evidence in the Bible which suggests that the souls of God's people dwell in Heaven between the time of death and New Earth. But we can only really guess what's going on there, in my opinion. In any case, our ultimate destination is a new (perfected in some way, but still physical) Earth.
There will also be a New Heaven. We can only really guess at what will make it new or how it will be different.
What will we do there? Let me start here: For the most part, we don't get tired of life. We find meaningful relationships, meaningful education, meaningful interest pursuits (hobbies and fun), and meaningful work. And we go day after day, never thinking "I want this to stop." The only thing that makes life miserable is (1) the misery, and (2) old age that interferes with our meaningful relationships, education, interest pursuits and work. We would never want it to stop, especially if (1) we were meeting new and interesting people and growing in our relationships, (2) able to keep learning things that made life interesting, (3) able to pursue more and different interesting hobbies and fun, and (4) work that made us feel something significant. I've known people who got to the end of their lives and weren't anywhere near boredom, but wanted life to just keep going. People like Walt Disney and Steven Jobs are examples of that, but there are millions more examples of people like that.
Heaven is a place of growing interest. In Luke 19.11-27, Jesus tells a parable about "when the kingdom of God appears." Many people believe that he's talking about heaven and hell. In the story, people in "heaven" are rewarded with jobs and responsibility, much like we have here on earth. Since the book of Revelation describes heaven as being on this earth (Rev. 21.2), and it describes heaven as a city (Rev. 21.10), it makes sense to me that life in heaven will be filled with productive labor, meaningful activity, great relationships, and lots to do. It certainly won't be sitting around playing harps. That would kill any of us.
Watchman Nee wrote, "Heaven is not a place of inactivity, but we shall be called to a greater work." The reward for responsibility is more responsibility. To him who has, more will be given.
Isaiah 65 makes it sound like people will build houses (v. 21) and do work that is productive and fulfilling (23). Zechariah 14.16 makes mention of worship, as does much of Revelation. Matthew 25.14-30 also mentions "I will put you in charge of many things."
In a speculative vein, what if God starts creating again (since it is his nature), and there are more worlds to explore, and new worlds to explore, and every day something new is popping up (since God is infinite in his creative nature) to do, see, and enjoy? It's a fascinating prospect—a God of infinite creative ability letting loose again for our continual enthusiasm and inspiration.
I actually think that Anne Rice tried to deal with these thoughts in her "Interview with a Vampire." It seemed to be about "What would it be like to live forever?" The ability to live for centuries took its toll on the characters, and we see them wandering in and out of interest and boredom, abusive and meaningful relationships, self-loathing and self-motivation. In essence, I think the book was about how meaningless life can be when it is founded on self-orientation. Interestingly, shortly after writing the book, Anne returned to Catholicism where she wrote several stories about Jesus, finding a whole different orientation to life that changed its purpose and inspiration. (To be fair, I believe that she has once again deserted the faith and describes herself as a secular humanist.) My point is, however, that life grounded on self-orientation too easily lapses into boredom and fear, but life grounded in an eternal Dimension (God) that knows no bounds or limitations only finds one fulfillment after another, and a continuing stream of interest and inspiration.
Question answered? If not, feel free to ask more.
Heaven is usually mentioned in the Bible in one of two ways.
On one hand, it's sort of a place that God rules from. The main idea is that God's presence and righteousness is there in full force. Jesus often talked about God's kingdom coming to Earth. We see Heaven as a place which is already entirely God's kingdom. And he is always being worshiped there, by angels. So presumably it's where angels generally exist- they're only ever seen on Earth when given a specific mission or responsibility here I suppose.
So then Heaven is also seen as sort of an... ideal place. It's synonymous with God's kingdom in a more general sense. That's why we say something like "Heaven come to Earth." Heaven and Earth are entirely separate. The point is that God's kingdom is coming to Earth. And in this same sense, Heaven is also used as a place that we want to go in the afterlife. (There's a lot of this in the Bible. See uses of "Zion" for a similar concept.)
The truth is, Biblical speaking, Heaven is NOT our ultimate destination. There's this idea that Jesus didn't come to lead us away from Earth and off to Heaven. He died physically and was raised back to life as something new... but still physical. Revelation talks about how there will be a New Heaven and New Earth in the end, that God will dwell here on Earth just as he dwells in Heaven, and that we will live (in resurrected bodies like Jesus') in New Earth. So the common equivalency between Heaven and the afterlife is a bit of a mistake. Heaven was being used in this sense to refer to God's kingdom in general, but it became twisted into this idea that we would just leave Earth and spend eternity in Heaven. That's not biblical. There is some evidence in the Bible which suggests that the souls of God's people dwell in Heaven between the time of death and New Earth. But we can only really guess what's going on there, in my opinion. In any case, our ultimate destination is a new (perfected in some way, but still physical) Earth.
There will also be a New Heaven. We can only really guess at what will make it new or how it will be different.
What will we do there? Let me start here: For the most part, we don't get tired of life. We find meaningful relationships, meaningful education, meaningful interest pursuits (hobbies and fun), and meaningful work. And we go day after day, never thinking "I want this to stop." The only thing that makes life miserable is (1) the misery, and (2) old age that interferes with our meaningful relationships, education, interest pursuits and work. We would never want it to stop, especially if (1) we were meeting new and interesting people and growing in our relationships, (2) able to keep learning things that made life interesting, (3) able to pursue more and different interesting hobbies and fun, and (4) work that made us feel something significant. I've known people who got to the end of their lives and weren't anywhere near boredom, but wanted life to just keep going. People like Walt Disney and Steven Jobs are examples of that, but there are millions more examples of people like that.
Heaven is a place of growing interest. In Luke 19.11-27, Jesus tells a parable about "when the kingdom of God appears." Many people believe that he's talking about heaven and hell. In the story, people in "heaven" are rewarded with jobs and responsibility, much like we have here on earth. Since the book of Revelation describes heaven as being on this earth (Rev. 21.2), and it describes heaven as a city (Rev. 21.10), it makes sense to me that life in heaven will be filled with productive labor, meaningful activity, great relationships, and lots to do. It certainly won't be sitting around playing harps. That would kill any of us.
Watchman Nee wrote, "Heaven is not a place of inactivity, but we shall be called to a greater work." The reward for responsibility is more responsibility. To him who has, more will be given.
Isaiah 65 makes it sound like people will build houses (v. 21) and do work that is productive and fulfilling (23). Zechariah 14.16 makes mention of worship, as does much of Revelation. Matthew 25.14-30 also mentions "I will put you in charge of many things."
In a speculative vein, what if God starts creating again (since it is his nature), and there are more worlds to explore, and new worlds to explore, and every day something new is popping up (since God is infinite in his creative nature) to do, see, and enjoy? It's a fascinating prospect—a God of infinite creative ability letting loose again for our continual enthusiasm and inspiration.
I actually think that Anne Rice tried to deal with these thoughts in her "Interview with a Vampire." It seemed to be about "What would it be like to live forever?" The ability to live for centuries took its toll on the characters, and we see them wandering in and out of interest and boredom, abusive and meaningful relationships, self-loathing and self-motivation. In essence, I think the book was about how meaningless life can be when it is founded on self-orientation. Interestingly, shortly after writing the book, Anne returned to Catholicism where she wrote several stories about Jesus, finding a whole different orientation to life that changed its purpose and inspiration. (To be fair, I believe that she has once again deserted the faith and describes herself as a secular humanist.) My point is, however, that life grounded on self-orientation too easily lapses into boredom and fear, but life grounded in an eternal Dimension (God) that knows no bounds or limitations only finds one fulfillment after another, and a continuing stream of interest and inspiration.
Question answered? If not, feel free to ask more.
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