Board index ‹ Heaven and Hell

[Russian Troller]

P1: All humans from conception have the "sin nature"
P2: Without accepting jesus, you are destined to hell.
P3: Babies who die early do not accept jesus and thus still have the sin nature.
Conclusions: Babies go to hell.

For those who still think that babies go to heaven. If they do, then ultimately jesus' sacrifice was meaningless. If people can go to heaven without jesus then whatever jesus did was unnecessary. And God ultimately decides who goes to heaven. By this there will also be nuances that also make people go to heaven.

What about people with mental illnesses incapable of ever understanding? What about people who never heard? What about people before jesus who didn't hear? What about people forced into other religions?

If accepting Jesus' sacrifice is not a prerequisite to enter heaven, that would mean that yahweh is just searching for pawns who will worship him for eternity. And those who are incapable or unwilling will born for eternity.

Not very loving...

[jimwalton]

So, if we're going to go "according to the Bible," then we need to do that.

Romans 5.13 says people who lived before the law will have a different standard of accountability before God. Deuteronomy 1.37-40 says that those too young to be held accountable are not held accountable in the same way as those who were in a position to know. In Isaiah 7.15, God recognizes that some people (such as babies) are too young to know enough to reject the wrong and choose the right.

Therefore, according to the Bible, people are not punished for they could possibly not know, especially those too young to be held accountable. Those who are too young, i.e., babies in your post, are not held accountable for sin.

Therefore we can't cavalierly conclude "Babies go to hell," and therefore your consequent conclusion that "God is not very loving" is misguided and incorrect.

> For those who still think that babies go to heaven. If they do, then ultimately jesus' sacrifice was meaningless.

This is incorrect. The Bible specifically says that God is not unfair and does not hold people accountable for what they cannot possibly know.

> What about people with mental illnesses incapable of ever understanding?

Same Scriptures, same truths. God will not hold people accountable for what they could not possibly have known.

> If accepting Jesus' sacrifice is not a prerequisite to enter heaven

Accepting Jesus's sacrifice is a prerequisite to enter heaven, so now we need to talk about you specifically. You have heard. You have at least some knowledge of the Scriptures. You know who Jesus is. Turning to him in repentance and love is the right choice to make. if you don't, you will definitely be held accountable for what you know and the decisions you make about it, not only for your own life but also for your influence on others. Perhaps you should think about coming to Christ in repentance and love. Let's talk.

[Russian Troller]

Okay lets say i agree.

Do you not agree from conception you have the "sin nature"?

If so, it doesn't matter if you knew or not. Or sinned or not.

You need to accept a saviour.

And if God created people in such a way they were not accountable. Say a mental disability. Then they were destined for heaven since birth. And according to you they would enter heaven even if they didn't acceot jesus. Cuz they cant.

[jimwalton]

> Do you not agree from conception you have the "sin nature"?

Yes, I agree.

> If so, it doesn't matter if you knew or not. Or sinned or not. You need to accept a saviour.

Not necessarily. Babies are not in a position to "know" or "accept." That's what the Scriptures were about that I sent you. There are conditions in situations that change situations.

> And if God created people in such a way they were not accountable. Say a mental disability. Then they were destined for heaven since birth. And according to you they would enter heaven even if they didn't acceot jesus. Cuz they can't.

This is possibly the case. If someone has no ability to make a decision, say because they are a baby or have a mental disability, the Scriptures hint that possibly different rules apply, which would make sense. We follow what the Scriptures tell us, which isn't much in a case like this.

But the scriptures do tell us about someone like you, who has heard, and can think, and does have information. God is inviting you to come to Him—to use the information you have to make the correct decision. Let's talk about that.