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[Yackovitch]

Hello there.

so I was watching an epic debate between Mickeal jones (who I think is the best defender of Christianity ) vs comic skeptic on "Would God allows evil?"

and the atheist (comic skeptic) did make a great point which goes like this:

Q: will we have free will in heaven?

A: Yes

Q: so we would be able to sin in heaven?

A: Yes

Q: so there will be suffering in heaven?

so this is where that great point comes into play.

1-if you say Yes there will be suffering in heaven, then evil really will never stop.

if you say no, God will stop evil in heaven, then any skeptic could say "why can't he stop it here on earth?"

your thoughts?

[jimwalton]

I think the Christian in the debate dropped the ball. Yes, we will have free will in heaven, but we will have freely submitted our wills to the will of the Father, and also used our free wills to allow Him complete freedom to transform us into His likeness. C.S. Lewis wrote, "Wherever the will conferred by the Creator is perfectly offered back in delight and delighting obedience by the creature, there, most undoubtedly, is Heaven..." Therefore we will have free will in Heaven, but we will not be able to sin in Heaven, and there will not be suffering in Heaven. We can discuss it more if you want.

[Yackovitch]

Thanks for the reply, and you mentioned a good point that I want to discuss it with you.

I'm a Christian by the way, and I find these topics interesting.

I watch a lot of frank Turek's videos. and I noticed every time someone asked him why would God allow evil on earth, he always replies with this line:

"God created free creatures on earth, he can create a universe where all people would worship him and do good, that's logically possible, but it's not achievable with free creatures"

and yet, you said "Therefore we will have free will in Heaven, but we will not be able to sin in Heaven"

so as you can see, in heaven, we will be these free creatures that can do anything but evil, so it is achievable for God to create free creatures that can only do good.

so a skeptic can say "so why didn't God make us that way here on earth?"

[jimwalton]

I disagree with Turek also. It IS achievable with free creatures, but only as free creatures have had an opportunity to make a decision. My train of thought is that you can't force people to love you. That's an abuse of power and negates free will. But if those creatures, because they have free will (and therefore free creatures), voluntarily and out of love submit their will to the will of the Father (Mt. 6.10; 26.39), then God can purge out our sin and our desire to sin without abrogating our free will. As a matter of fact, God as affirmed our free will.

So that's why God didn't make us that way here on Earth, and why He can't. Earth is where we exercise our free wills to say "God, your will be done" or "MY will be done." Heaven will only be populated by the former, which gives God carte blanche to conform us to His image and likeness.

[Yackovitch]

great point, Thanks.