Board index ‹ LGBT: Gays, Lesbians, Bisexual, Transgender, and Homosexuality

[Uncle Mick]

Why are adultery and promiscuity considered forgivable sins; while homosexuality is not?

[jimwalton]

They're all forgivable. The only sin that isn't forgivable is the persistent and intractable rejection of Jesus.

The Bible doesn't make a difference between adultery as a "lesser" sin or homosexuality as a greater or unforgivable sin. I don't know where you got this opinion, but it's not accurate. Any sin can be repented and forgiven. It's the ones we never turn from that aren't forgiven.

[Scape211]

It's the ones we never turn from that aren't forgiven.

Jim can you expound on this comment? This is likely where some people get confused or tripped up; including myself. I understand that homosexuality is/can be considered sin like any other and is forgivable, but what if someone does not consider this a sin (as is often debated)? Isn't that where the main issue is? For if someone claims to be a Christian yet lives a homosexual life and has no desire to change or turn from it, does this create a problem?

[jimwalton]

You asked: What if someone doesn't consider homosexuality a sin?

I know the pressure of our culture is that we have to be 100% accepting of homosexuality as an orientation, lifestyle, and sexual activity. The reasons usually given are (1) it's genetic, not chosen; (2) love wins, and (3) it's discriminatory and judgmental to reject who someone is.

Let's look at these, as well as what the Bible says.

"It's genetic." Not exactly true; not good science. There is no "gay gene," though there are certainly genetic and biological factors that contribute to a person's sexuality. No geneticist is quite ready to say that being gay is genetic, nor that gayness is inherited, and yet all admit that there's more to it than environment and upbringing. One study said, "Nonheterosexuality is in part influenced by many tiny genetic effects.” It also said that these genetic variants could not reliably predict someone’s sexual orientation. “There’s really no predictive power.” There is a whole lot involved in our sexual orientation picture, but at least part of it is biological. At the bottom line, it's inaccurate to say it's genetic, not chosen.

"Love wins." We see this a lot on the signs in the street protests, and it's distorting and just manipulative. As Christians we recognize the priority and value of love, but we also assert that the issues involved here are more than singular. We are to be imitators of God (Eph. 5.1), and so there is more to the picture than love. There's also, at the very least, righteousness and holiness. As important as love is, there's more. In Scripture we are told that homosexual relationships are not righteous and don't reflect God's holiness. We shouldn't be discouraged, though. There is a relationship that fulfills the mandates of all 3: heterosexual, monogamous marriage. So if we really want love to win, we should embrace heterosexual, monogamous marriage as the best expression of it.

"It's discriminatory and judgmental to reject who someone is." We as Christians don't reject anyone (except, as Paul says in 1 Cor. 5, those hypocritical believers who refuse to repent). It is not our place to judge people outside of the Church. The laws of Leviticus were written for the covenant community. Paul's teachings about homosexuality show it to be displeasing to God, but it's not our place to judge (Mt. 6.1). Our God-given role is to be a friend of sinners, and to be known by our love. Our role is to call people to repentance, but that is best done by speaking the truth in love, not by brandishing hate placards and cat-calling against gays.

I have yet to answer, "Is homosexuality a sin?" Leviticus calls it an "abomination," which means that it is contrary to God's order, and therefore not approved. Paul doesn't explicitly call it sin in Romans 1, but that is implied as a godless and wicked behavior (Rom. 1.18) warranting God's wrath. It is described as "degrading," "shameful," and having abandoned what was natural (vv. 26-27). But in 1 Timothy 1.9-10, Paul does explicitly call homosexuality sin. We just can't (and shouldn't try to) get around the clear teaching and truth of the Bible.

To the question of "if someone claims to be a Christian yet lives a homosexual life and has no desire to change or turn from it, does this create a problem," I would say yes it does. Anyone who knows what God considers to be sin, and yet continues to live in it, is not of God (1 Jn. 3.6). We all have what we would call "natural propensities" that are displeasing to God. Just because it's natural for us doesn't mean it's acceptable. Actually, the Bible says quite the opposite. Most things that are natural for us are part of our depravity before God—especially pride. We all, whoever we are and whatever our sin is, have to be willing to die to it and live in Christ instead. That's our calling and the demands of God. Sexuality or our self-defined gender orientation don't get a free pass. We are all called to repent from anything that God considers a barrier to relationship with Him, no matter what the price.

[Raiku]

According to the bible, that's how you end up becoming a homosexual, by rejecting the Lord

Romans 1

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

[jimwalton]

Thank you for allowing me to clarify. According to the Bible, including the text you have chosen from Romans 1, you don't become a homosexual by rejecting the Lord. What the Bible is saying is that when sinners persist in their sin, and refuse to repent of it, and refuse to turn to the Lord, eventually God stops trying to win their hearts (because they are intractable), and He turns them over the natural consequences of their choices. When a situation becomes hopeless, God stops offering hope and let's them pursue their chosen course, and the consequences are on their own shoulders. That's what the Romans text says.

v. 21: Even though they knew God, they refused to acknowledge Him and persisted in their vanity, which affected the way they think

v. 24: So God let them have what they had chosen. They made their bed, and they will lie in it.

v. 26: So God let them have what they had chosen.

v. 27: They will suffer the consequences of their own moral and lifestyle choices.

v. 28: And because they refuse to keep God in their minds, then their minds will continue on without the knowledge of God.

[Raiku]

Let's agree to disagree. People can make the bible say whatever they want, it's pointless to talk about it.

[jimwalton]

Well, it's certainly possible that it's pointless to talk about it because we'll never agree, but your reasoning is off the wall ("People can make the Bible say whatever they want.") Bible study and interpretation is an academic discipline with hermeneutical rules, exegetical principles, artifacts, historiography, and cultural studies. When it comes right down to it, I've interpreted the Romans text quite accurately. In truth, the Bible does NOT say that you "end up becoming a homosexual, by rejecting the Lord." Sometime, I would think, you need to stop justifying making the Bible say what you want it to say.