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What does the Bible say about abortion

Using God as a Basis for Banning Abortion Is Dark

Postby Dark Master » Sun Mar 17, 2019 4:39 pm

Using God/The Bible as a Basis for Banning Abortion Is Dark Irony

I am an atheist who maintains that abortion is wrong. I clearly see it as killing a human being. The DNA is human. There are only four differences between a fertilized zygote, and a human outside the womb. The differences are size, stage of development, environment, and viability outside the womb. None of these differences mean that the fetus (latin meaning 'little baby') is any less human. I believe the best way for pro-lifers to rid abortion from society is by basing their arguments on science (a fertilized zygote is a human: 100%) and the already instilled societal values in their country (USA has implemented that every person has fundamental rights to live, and that murder is wrong). Now, onto why I believe using the Christian God specifically to get rid of abortion is ironic and foolish. There are several verses where God clearly accepts and even advocates for the murder of babies. For example, "You shall acknowledge no God but me. . . . You are destroyed, Israel. . . . The people of Samaria must bear their guilt, because they have rebelled against their God. They will fall by the sword; their little ones will be dashed to the ground, their pregnant women ripped open." (Hosea 13:4, 9, 16 New International Version). Yikes. God commands for the murder of children, and very violent abortions. Here is another instance advocating for the murder of children, "See, the day of the Lord is coming — a cruel day, with wrath and fierce anger. . . . I will put an end to the arrogance of the haughty. . . . Their infants will be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses will be looted and their wives violated." (Isaiah 13:9–16 NIV). More baby killing with a dash of rape. Yikes. Finally, here is another verse commanding for the death of babies, "This is what the Lord Almighty says... ‘Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’” (1 Samuel 15:3). Perfect. Let's just kill everybody, even the... animals? It doesn't make sense to me. Regardless, all of these verses give allowance and even commandments to carry out the murder of babies and infants. As an atheist, I do not see the God of the bible as any sort of moral basis to end abortion. However, if you bring a logical, and understandable argument to the table in regard to science and societal values, then I think you have a shot at winning over others to your side. (Disclaimer: apologies for any formatting errors or grammatical mistakes. I am on mobile. (: )
Dark Master
 

Re: Using God as a Basis for Banning Abortion Is Dark

Postby jimwalton » Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:18 am

> I am an atheist who maintains that abortion is wrong.

Glad to hear it. I am a Christian who maintains that abortion is wrong.

> I believe the best way for pro-lifers to rid abortion from society is by basing their arguments on science (a fertilized zygote is a human: 100%) and the already instilled societal values in their country (USA has implemented that every person has fundamental rights to live, and that murder is wrong).

I agree. Science makes a great anti-abortion argument, as does the American value system where people have rights. In addition I think the Bible makes a good argument that humans have intrinsic value because they are in the image of God. As an atheist, I wouldn't expect you to subscribe to that part of the argument.

> There are several verses where God clearly accepts and even advocates for the murder of babies. For example, "You shall acknowledge no God but me. . . . You are destroyed, Israel. . . . The people of Samaria must bear their guilt, because they have rebelled against their God. They will fall by the sword; their little ones will be dashed to the ground, their pregnant women ripped open." (Hosea 13:4, 9, 16 New International Version).

If you're like most atheists with whom I've spoken, you've gotten this text from somewhere else with little clue what it's about. Your comment leads me to that conclusion.

Hosea is using a literary technique called metonymy. In verses 12-13 it is clear that Hosea is using the image of a pregnant women and the fetus inside as a metonym for discipline (judgment). God’s disciplinary judgment is "growing in the womb," and it is about to be born. While God has been patiently waiting, the time of delivery is upon the rebellious and the evil. Its onset is imminent, just like a woman in labor. So when the time of judgment comes, it will not just be a calm and normal birth, delivering the child gently by candlelight, but it will be as if the child were ripped from its mother’s womb and dashed to the ground, their evil has been so great and their judgment so deserved.

In addition, Hosea is using a rhetorical technique. Common ancient Near Eastern warfare rhetoric included wiping out populations (though that was rarely done), burning young children (though that was even more rare), and even tearing open pregnant woman (almost nonexistent). But it was the way they spoke when they were expressing their intent to devastate the enemy.

In other words, none of this is literal. It is metonymy and rhetoric to express the depth of God’s wrath and the completeness of the judgment. Your comment is a distortion and shows a complete misunderstanding of the text.

> Isaiah 13:9–16

Again, God is not commanding that this is what should happen. He is saying that barbarians will come and act barbarically. The inhuman conduct is on the part of godless brutes. God is as abhorred by the behavior as we are.

> 1 Samuel 15:3

You could benefit in all of these cases from some real research. The "kill 'em all including women and children" was ancient warfare rhetoric. It was neither meant that way or executed that way. It was their way of saying, "Let's win a decisive victory." The city of Amalek was the target, not the whole of the Amalek people. The Amalekites were a nomadic group spread over hundreds of square miles of territory. Waiting in a ravine (15.5) is the strategy to conquer a single city, not to genocide a people group. The cities were fortresses. The occupants of the city were governmental officials (the king and his court) and soldiers. There were no babies being killed here.

> It doesn't make sense to me.

That's apparently because you've read the text superficially and arrived at a conclusion before you did any study. No wonder it doesn't make sense to you.

> Regardless, all of these verses give allowance and even commandments to carry out the murder of babies and infants.

Therefore this conclusion is totally misguided and false. I'm glad we've had a chance to clarify this for you.

> As an atheist, I do not see the God of the bible as any sort of moral basis to end abortion.

It seems that you've created a case on false information, which makes this a false conclusion. I'm assuming we need to talk more.


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