Board index ‹ The End of the World

[Lucky]

We can all agree that the earth being made in 7 days was not what we, as humans, think of as 7 days. The question I have is: Knowing that, how do we know that the 7 year tribulation is what we, as humans, think of as 7 years?

I was made to go to church my entire life, until I was old enough to be able to decide for myself, and when the rapture, the tribulation, the battle of armageddon (I've heard WWII referred to as armageddon), and all that was being taught, it was always presented as 7 human years. Why do we assume that?

Not trying to start anything. I'm genuinely curious and have been thinking about this after watching a documentary about WWII and would like to know what you guys think.

[jimwalton]

We can't be certain that the "7-year Tribulation" will be seven years.

1. The nature of prophesy is not predictive (God doesn’t predict anything; He is omniscient. He lives in the eternal present. The purpose was that God would be properly recognized as having caused those events as a part of his ongoing plan.) Instead, it's more like a syllabus, showing God's intent, but He is also in authority to change it. The nature of prophesy is fluid. (a) John 3: God made a solid "prediction" then changed it; (b) 1 Ki. 21.28-29: God responded to people's actions on Earth and changed the judgment; (c) 2 Ki. 20: Isaiah prophesied that Hezekiah would die. Hezekiah prayed, God chose to answers, and Hez lived 15 more years; (d) Jer. 18.1-12. God changes His plans in response to people's responses.
2. Fulfillment isn't necessary what we think it will be. Isa. 7.14; 11.16; Ezk. 26.5; Jonah 3; Mt. 12.18.
3. The end goal of prophecy is to be people to repent. God has the authority to make changes as people respond (or not).

In Revelation:

1. All of the writing is highly symbolic. We are remiss to stand firm on a literal interpretation of ANY of it. We also know that "7" is a HIGHLY symbolic number in many contexts.
2. It's really about the kingdoms of this world vs. the kingdom of God. God will do as He wills to bring about His final kingdom.
3. God is trying to get people to repent (used 10 times in Revelation, but especially look at Rev. 9.20-21; 16.9 & 11).
4. The important lesson on which we can all agree is that it’s possible to endure and live faithfully through all the difficulties. It is written to help us understand what God is doing. The kingdoms of the Earth will move on, and we can’t control that, but we can control the response of our own hearts. God will eventually win and establish His kingdom. It is through the lens of hope and salvation that we are to view the current events. It is through the lens of truth that we can recognize the lies. It is through the presence of God that we will find consolation and peace in the midst of oppression. It is through the threat of judgment that we will be motivated to true obedience. Neutrality in such a world is impossible. All will be shown for what it truly is. That’s what we should focus on rather than all the details.

Therefore, all of the timing of Revelation prophecy is fluid, not set in stone. The 7 years of Tribulation may or may not work out to be 7 years.

[Broken Hope]

In Bible prophecy, the Scriptures mention 1260 days, 42 months, and “time, times, and a 1/2 time” in several places. All these terms apply to the last 3 ½ years of the 7-year Tribulation Period except for Revelation 11:3. Which is the first half of the Tribulation Period when the two witnesses prophesy in Jerusalem.

First 3.5 years

1,260 days (Revelation 11:3)

Two witnesses prophesy during this time(Revelation 11:3-12)

Last 3.5 years

42 months (Revelation 11:2, 13:5)

1260 days (Revelation 12:6)

“Time, times, and a 1/2 time”

(Revelation 12:14, Daniel 7:25, 12:7)

In the middle of the 7 years, the Antichrist will go into the rebuilt Jewish Temple, stop the animal sacrifices, and declare himself to be God. This starts the 1260-day countdown clock to when Jesus returns to earth.

Daniel was confused about the meaning of the prophecies. Michael the archangel told him, “Go your way, Daniel, for these words are concealed and sealed up until the end time” (Daniel 12:9). The angel told Daniel to not even try to figure out what’s going to happen because it is sealed up until the end, but in the last days people would understand.

Daniel 12:11-12 says, “From the time that the regular sacrifice is abolished and the abomination of desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days. How blessed is he who keeps waiting and attains to the 1,335 days.”

When the Antichrist goes into the temple in the middle of the tribulation, he will abolish the sacrifices and set up the abomination of desolation. We are not told what will happen 1290 days after this, which is 30 days past the Second Coming of Christ.
We know that the Judgment of the Nations (Matthew 25:31-34) will take place immediately after the Second Coming of Jesus to earth, so it’s likely that this judgment will take place during those 30 days.

Daniel 12:12 says, “How blessed is he who keeps waiting and attains to the 1,335 days.”

That’s an additional 45 days after the Second Coming and judgment of the nations. For the people who have passed the judgment and have been rewarded, it will take 45 days to set up the government of the kingdom. The millennial reign of Christ will begin on the 1,335th day.

Ezekiel 40-48 describes a temple that will be constructed in Jerusalem, which will be a central part of worship during the Millennium. It may be that the first assignment for the people entering the kingdom is to build the millennial temple. Jesus will rule the earth from Jerusalem for 1,000 years.

There is no reason to assume God doesn't mean exactly what He says. We should not mix commandments of men with the Word of God.

During the tribulation God sends an angel to preach His gospel to the world before Judgment.

Revelation 14:6-7

6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

Genesis 7:11

11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.

[jimwalton]

> In Bible prophecy, the Scriptures mention 1260 days

Of course it does. Symbolic numbers are standard in apocalyptic writing. Keener writes, "Daniel’s own numbers (9.2, 24) were a reapplication of Jeremiah, and some other apocalyptic writers also described other periods of tribulation symbolically as '1260 days' to characterize the kind, rather than the length, of time they described." Kittel writes, "While this could mean a literal period of time, it could also be the period of severest affliction." We just can't be so confident that it is meant to be taken literally.

> Ezekiel 40-48 describes a temple that will be constructed in Jerusalem

No it doesn't. There is no instruction to build this temple. Ezekiel sees a vision of a temple, completely built, with no construction. No one knows whether this “temple” will really be rebuilt or whether it's figurative. The text never speaks of a command to build or any recognition that it is actually built. It may be, it may not. We can't know for sure in either direction.

If you know a verse where it says to actually build this temple, I'd like to see it. Ezekiel specifically says it's a vision (40.2).

> There is no reason to assume God doesn't mean exactly what He says

Of course there is if the genre suggests it. The Psalms say the trees of the field will clap their hands. Are we to assume God means exactly what that says? And the mountains will jump for joy? No, of course not. That's poetry, and we know it DOESN'T means exactly what it says. That's figurative language. The language of Revelation could easily be symbolic without compromising God's integrity,

> We should not mix commandments of men with the Word of God.

Of course we shouldn't, and I was not suggesting such a thing. I never suggested any commandment of men to supplant the Word of God.

> During the tribulation God sends an angel to preach His gospel to the world before Judgment.

Of course He does. This has nothing to do with the conversation at hand.

> Genesis 7:11

This has nothing to do with the conversation at hand.

[Web Guy]

That's a very even-handed review (your first reply). Thanks for that clarity.

[Righteous One]

I disagree with dispensationalism for a number of reasons, but in their constructed eschatological expectations, they're thinking of the 70th "week / seven" of Daniel chapter 9, and isn't it pretty clear in that section of Daniel, that a "week / seven" should be understood as a 7-year period?

[jimwalton]

Yes, just about everyone interprets Daniel's "weeks" as years. That doesn't mean, however, that it's meant as exactly 7 years. And, based on what I showed about the nature of prophecy, it still doesn't mean we can guarantee that 7 years is how it will play out. God has a right to alter the schedule, as He has shown He does.

[Broken Hope]

Why did you just use 1260 days when it is written 1260 days, 42 months, and “time, times, and a 1/2 time” in several places and multiple times. You just copy pasted what some other guy wrote and it does not even make sense. There is no instruction for building, Jesus speaks when it is already built and the antichrist desecrates it. The Jews already have everything they need to perform sacrifices again they just need to build the temple. They are even genetically modifying right now for the perfect red heifer. Jesus says when the antichrist desecrates the temple, leave immediately and run to the mountains.

Matthew 24

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

It does because people like you always want to elude that Gods Word is some kind of allegory and when he says a day it is not actually a day. When he says a year it does not mean a year. This is why his gospel only refers to both creationism and the flood, If you accept it you can not believe in evolution. The same is true in this case if he does not actually mean 7 years then you leave anything open to interpretation. Yes when God is using figurative language it is so painfully obvious. A 5 year old could figure out mountains don't jump and a tree does not have hands. To take this example and then use it as a case against Revelation is beyond stupid. If that is how you justify your position I can see why you do not understand.

[jimwalton]

> Why did you just use 1260 days when it is written 1260 days, 42 months, and “time, times, and a 1/2 time” in several places and multiple times. You just copy pasted what some other guy wrote and it does not even make sense.

Take it easy. I was just saying "1260 days" to refer to the paragraph you wrote. I did that rather than fill up a lot of space with your whole paragraph, but I was referring to the whole thing.

> You just copy pasted what some other guy wrote and it does not even make sense

It's always interesting to learn from the scholars who study these things deeply. Keener and Kittle are reliable scholars who know their subject matter well. But you're saying I should believe you (some person) rather than them (some guys)? What's the difference?

> Jesus speaks when it is already built and the antichrist desecrates it.

Many scholars think that Matthew 24 is about the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70. The abomination of desolation Jesus mentions in Mt. 24.15 was actually fulfilled by the Roman army in AD 70. I think the text takes a turn in v. 27, and in that section there is no mention of the temple.

> The Jews already have everything they need to perform sacrifices again they just need to build the temple.

This may be so (I have heard the same thing), but it has nothing to do really with what the Scriptures mean. It's just an example of how some Jews interpret the prophecy.

> It does because people like you always want to elude that Gods Word is some kind of allegory and when he says a day it is not actually a day.

Don't accuse me of something I've never said or done.

> Yes when God is using figurative language it is so painfully obvious

Not always. Sometimes His figurative language is subtle.

Rev. 11.3; 12.6; 13.5: 1260 days 42 months, etc.. The number of "1260 days" was symbolically in other writings, not as an exact number (you can't always "do the math") but figuratively to describe a period of tribulation, not a specific length of time.

Measurements of time in Revelation are often not meant to be taken literally, but have symbolic significance. It's the very nature of apocalyptic writing.