Board index ‹ The Holy Spirit

[Scape211]

I have heard on many accounts of people who believe in something other than God to have had encounters, a voice speaking to them, a dream, etc. Some of course sound bogus, but other seem very real. For instance I heard from the late Nabeel Qureshi in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0D8Uz4oQck&t=5988s

About 45 minutes in he starts talking about how the Muslim faith puts trust in dreams for prophetic guidance. Since they cant directly commune with Allah, this is how they seek his wisdom especially for major life decisions. He talks about how his family chose jobs, partners, where to live, etc. through this. Some are very vivid too like the one of his mother where she planted 4 trees; 2 grew 2 didn't. Her aunt then interprets it to mean that she will get pregnant 4 times. 2 will yield children and 2 will be miscarriages. This is actually what happens.

So what do we make of this? Is God or the Holy Spirit guiding them even though they don't believe? Is it Satan trying to trick them like we hear in Job were he used fires from heaven to mimic God's wraith? Or is it just poor interpretation of the dream and some large coincidence? Clearly when you compare the facts of Christianity and the Islamic faith, there is no comparison - Christianity comes out on top and Nabeel even points this out through the video as he converts to Christianity. However, why would this happen? Personal experiences like this often define the faith of some people so I just don't understand why it happens even when the core evidence isn't there.

[jimwalton]

Great questions. The answer is mostly "all of the above."

Look at the biblical evidence:

1. God spoke to Joseph (both OT Joseph and NT Joseph), one of his children, in a dream
2. God spoke to Abraham, Solomon, Samuel, Daniel, Isaiah, and others in dreams and visions.
3. God spoke to Nebuchadnezzar, someone who was antagonistic to God, in a dream.
4. God spoke to Pharaoh, the butler and baker, pagans (but not particularly hostile to YHWH), in dreams. Also Abimelech (Gn. 20.3), an anonymous man (Judges 7.13), the magi (Mt. 2), and even Pilate's wife (Mt. 27.19).

In all of these God is accomplishing His purposes through whomever He wishes, whether they are on His "team" or not.

But we also know there are other spiritual beings and forces out there.

1. Deuteronomy 13.1-5 tells of false prophets who foretell by dreams and are even able to do signs and wonders. "Don't believe them," God says, and "put them to death."
2. Jer. 23.25, 32; 27.9; 29.8 speaks of false prophets who have had dreams.
3. Zechariah 10.2: "Diviners see visions that lie; they tell dreams that are false."
4. Jude 1.8: "on the strength of their dreams these ungodly people pollute their own bodies, reject authority and heap abuse on celestial beings."

> So what do we make of this? Is God or the Holy Spirit guiding them even though they don't believe?

Sometimes yes, this is clearly what is happening.

> Is it Satan trying to trick them

Sometimes yes, this is clearly what is happening.

> Or is it just poor interpretation of the dream and some large coincidence?

Most dreams are not messages from God (or Satan). Most dreams are us sifting through what's going on in our lives. They are mostly not prophetic or even spiritual, but mostly just weird ways our brain processes what goes on in our lives.

> However, why would this happen?

God wants to communicate with us and establish a relationship with us. Satan wants to deceive us and pull us away from God.

All in all, just like everything else, we have to (1) learn to hear God's voice (Jn. 10), (2) learn to be discerning (1 Cor. 2.1; Phil.1.10; 1 Jn. 4.1), and (3) grow in wisdom (Prov. 1.5 et al).

[Scape211]

Thanks Jim. Personal experiences with other faiths are always hard for me to challenge when in discussions with those who believe in other things. I often can assure them of the direct comparison and how Christianity and God show far more credibility when looking at it from all angles; science, philosophy, reason, logic, etc. However, the spiritual experiences are so real people tend to dismiss facts. Such is the world we are in I suppose. This at least helps give me some grounds for debate or discussion.