Board index ‹ Christianity

[Maestro]

Yeah, I get that it must be pretty hard to imagine a world without God when you're not really used to it. Maybe we could explore the reasons you come to your God belief a little? I'm especially interested in #3, #4, and #7-12, since I haven't heard them that often. Are you saying that you think Christianity is true, because you find the doctrine of Christianity the most appealing, (because it makes the most sense to you), when compared the world's other religions?

[jimwalton]

I am saying that, but also intending more than that. Besides its sense when compared to other religions, I also consider Christianity true because it is superior to atheistic and naturalistic explanations. We are all trying to infer the most reasonable conclusion based on the evidence before us. Consider the following.

1. Humans have self-consciousness. Theism says God is self-conscious, and made us like himself. Naturalism says our self-consciousness was produced by mindless, non-conscious processes. Hinduism says our self-consciousness is the ultimate reality, that we are all gods.

2. Personal beings exist. Theism says God is a personal Being, and made us like himself. Naturalists says our personality as humans derived from impersonal processes. Hinduism says our personality is a function of our karma.

3. Free will. Theists believe God is a free being who can choose to act. Naturalists believe we have emerged by deterministic processes and forces beyond our control. Hindus believe in fate, and free will is only an illusion.

4. Rationality and truth. Theism says God is truth and is a rational being, and has created us to be like him. Naturalism says truth is a social construct (though it has little to do with survival) and rationality is the result of random processes (and therefore trust in it is questionable). Hindus also believe in absolute truth, attainable through spiritual stages.

5. Human beings have intrinsic value and dignity, and therefore also inalienable rights. Theism believes God is a supremely valuable being who created us in his image. Naturalists believe humans were produced by valueless processes. Hindus believe every soul is potentially divine and worthy of dignity.

6. Objective moral values exist. Theists believe God is good and has invested humanity with a sense of goodness. Naturalists believe the universe was produced by nonmoral processes, and goodness is a social construct. Hinduism is extremely complex when it comes to morals, and there are different moral guidelines for different categories.

7. First life emerged. Theists believe God is a living active being, the first cause of living active life. Naturalists believe life emerged from nonliving matter. Hindus believe in continual creation.

8. Beauty exists. Theists believe God is beautiful and created beautiful things for his and our pleasure. Naturalists believe beauty is accidental and superfluous to survival. Beauty is one of the ideals of Hinduism.

9. The universe is finely tuned for life. Theism believes God is a wise and intelligent designer. Naturalists believe all the cosmic constraints just happen to be right. Hindus believe the Surpeme Soul (an intelligent agent) created the world.

10. Evil. Theists believe evil is a rebellion against and distortion of the good God created. Naturalists believe evil is a social construct. Hindus believe evil is an illusion.

So what I'm saying is that Christianity is true because it is the most natural fit, given what we observe in life and the universe (science). It also makes more sense than Hinduism. If I am going to reason to the most logical conclusion, Christianity has the highest score.

[Maestro]

> So what I'm saying is that Christianity is true because it is the most natural fit, given what we observe in life and the universe (science). It also makes more sense than Hinduism. If I am going to reason to the most logical conclusion, Christianity has the highest score.

That kind of begs the question: if you stumbled upon a religion with even more and even better explanations about life, the universe and everything, would that persuade you to leave Christianity and follow that other religion. And, more importantly, would you then consider that other religion to be true?

[jimwalton]

Of course. We have to follow the truth wherever it leads. Christianity is not blind faith, but a historical religion based in reason and substantiated by evidence. My faith is a function of the persuasive explanations of reality. If something else superseded Christianity, I'd be ignorant not to follow it.

[Maestro]

So what if I just made up some religion that had more explanatory power than Christianity? Would you belive that that was actually true?

[jimwalton]

Oh, my, this just goes on and on. What is your point? What are you trying to get at? You keep beating and beating this.

The answer to your question is No. It's not just the explanatory power of Christianity that gives it credibility, but its historical verifiability and corroboration. Nothing made up can begin to parallel what we have in Christianity. Christianity is unique in its verifiability.

What are you trying to get at? It seems that you have some kind of hidden agenda here.

[Maestro]

> What are you trying to get at? It seems that you have some kind of hidden agenda here.

I really don't, I just don't get why people gravitate to the religion they gravitate to. In this case, why you gravitated to Christianity. If there are good reasons to go for Christianity instead of Islam for example, I want to know them, because I want to believe things that are true.

For example, when you say you follow the truth wherever it leads and would follow the religion with the most explanatory power, it sounds odd to me that you wouldn't follow a religion with more explanatory power if we just made it up. That last thing makes it sound that explanatory power isn't really what "does it" for you. I want to understand what "does it" for people. What makes them worship the God they worship? If the thing that "does it" for someone is convincing, it might cause me to believe that that religion is correct.

There are a lot of people following their religion for bad reasons - because they were raised in it of because they are afraid of hell or because they just want to believe it is true. However, there may also be some good reasons to believe that a religion is true. If there are I want to know about them. That's why I keep on asking.

If you're bored by the conversation, it's okay to put an end to it. You've already been real patient with me. Thanks for being so polite and honest with me

[jimwalton]

Thanks also for your honesty. I'm not bored with the conversation, it just seems that you are repeatedly asking the same question despite the answers I give. I gave you a list of 13 reasons why I subscribe to Christianity, and you focused on one that summarized a few of them (best explanatory power), and ask your question again as if I never mentioned the other 8 things. It's evidentiary, it's logical, it's experience, it's explanatory power, its history, its theology. I was hoping that I gave you a good grasp of why I believe in Christianity to the point of 100% confidence, and your response is, "So if made up something that sounded better, you'd go for that?" Um, no, I wouldn't. There's so much more to my ascription to Christianity than "the best explanation." That's why I wondered, "What are you really trying to find out?" My worldview is deep and multifaceted, not uniplanar. What else would you like to know?