Board index ‹ Specific Bible verses, texts, and passages ‹ Genesis

[Imam IQ]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luluwa

[jimwalton]

Here's an excerpt from the Wikipedia link:

Luluwa (also Aclima) according to some religious traditions was the oldest daughter of Adam and Eve, the twin sister of Cain and wife of Abel. According to these traditions, she was the first female human who was born naturally. According to Islamic and rabbinic tradition, a marriage between Luluwa and Abel was proposed and arranged by their father Adam. In order to commence contentment from Luluwa's twin brother, Adam (their father) suggested that a sacrifice be made, yet sacrifice was subsequently rejected by God. The reason behind the commotion was that Cain viewed Luluwa as being aesthetically more attractive than Awan.

No, Cain didn't. Just because someone comes up with a fabricated story doesn't mean that interpretation has any legitimacy. Luluwa is not part of the biblical story. If you want to know what the Bible says, then we have to look at what the Bible says, and not what someone has added to it.

Adam and Eve chose to take wisdom (the "knowledge of good and evil") for themselves, making themself the source of order and wisdom. Genesis 4-11 shows that all attempts by humans to be the source of order and wisdom were unsuccessful. Even religion, cities, and civilization do not, in fact, lead to an ordered, wise, and godly condition. Genesis 12 then begins the story of God showing what will lead humanity there, and it's the divine-centered covenant.

Genesis 4 shows that sin continues and increases. It shows the first of many evidences of how desperately the covenant (and God's intervention) is needed. It shows what the world looks like under the reign of sin and death. It shows why God had to enact a plan to restore what was marred.

In other words, to see Cain as killing able over his sister doesn't fit the template. It's an obvious fabricated insertion. Rather, the story of Cain and Abel is about the issue of an offering to the Lord (Gn. 4.3-4) and the value of retaining God's favor. When God removed Adam & Eve from the Garden, their true loss was not the Garden, but instead God's presence. Genesis 4 follows that story, as Cain and Abel are shown seeking God's presence with their offerings. Sacrifice is a relationship-building activity. Cain's sacrifice was given grudgingly instead of with honor (v. 5), and therefore it won't accomplish the purpose of motivating God's presence. Cain was trying to approach God on his own terms, just as Adam and Eve had done. That's the point. To twist it into wanting Abel's twin sister is just an untenable mutilation of the text.

[Imam IQ]

But you're just saying that because it doesn't fit your interpretation.

[jimwalton]

Actually, that's not at all why I'm saying it. One merely has to look at the text to see what it is about. We can't just make up our own stuff. While someone is free to have their own opinion, they are not free to manufacture their own facts.

• Genesis is about the covenant. Its purpose is to begin the story of the covenant. The broader context of Gn. 4 is the need for and the initiation of the covenant.
• Genesis 1-11 repeatedly shows us the failure of humanity to be their own source of wisdom and order. Genesis 4 shows more failure in that same vein.
• Genesis 3 is more about the encroachment of disorder (brought about by sin) than it is about sin as a concept. it is about how humanity lost access to the presence of God. It is about alienation.
• Genesis 4 shows us the continuing encroachment of disorder, the failure of humanity to be the source of their own wisdom and order, and the growing need for the covenant.
• Genesis 5 shows the the emptiness of the serpent's bald-faced lie, "You shall not surely die." It also sets us the contrasting persons of Lamech (4.19) and Enoch (5.22-23) as one rebellious against God and one loyal to Him.
• Genesis 6.1-4 is a narrative sequel to Cain and Abel as an example of disorder that needs to be addressed by God: the corruption of humanity—the reason for the Flood.
• Gen. 6-9 is God's judgment on human corruption and His restorative actions. He also continues His own program of revelation.
• Gen. 10 is God's blessing on humanity following His restoration of order.
• Gen. 11 shows another failed attempt by humanity to be their own source of wisdom and order.
• Gen. 12 is God's initiation of His covenant to reveal Himself and to redeem humanity.

It's quite obvious, as I said in my previous post, that Cain wanting to shack up with Abel's sister is an out-there theory that has nothing to do with the text, doesn't accomplish anything plot-wise in what the text is about, and doesn't fit the larger context (humanity's failure to be the source of his own wisdom and order, and the need for the covenant).

So the onus is on you to show me how Cain & Luluwa fits into the theme, the flow, and the point. I'll be glad to continue the discussion.

[Imam IQ]

Those aren't facts, they're assessments and they're subjective.

[jimwalton]

You have as of yet not contributed anything to the conversation. If you don't put something in the pot soon, I'll be left to assume you have nothing.