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[Newbie]

Why can God not win a wrestling match with a human? Is this odd to you? I would have thought an omnipotent deity would be more than capable of victory. If God was going easy on Jacob, then was he lying when he said you have struggled with God and overcame?

[jimwalton]

A lot of what happens in the Bible, while still historical, is like a living parable. There are spiritual lessons in what happens and the way it happens, and it teaches us things about the character of God and about ourselves in how we interact with God.

In Gn. 32, as missing7 said below (or above, depending where reddit puts this post!), Jacob has lived a life of wrestling with God. He's a contentious, deceitful, conniving old goat who wants to do things his own way. The nighttime WWF match is a parable of his life, and God's message to him about his future. So don't doubt that there were actually two men grappling in the dirt—there were. But don't make the mistake of thinking that's the main point here.

Jacob has the strength to resist God. We all do. But God is determined to bless Jacob, and wants him to stop fighting and rebelling before he gives it. Hence the real life parable. Jacob's life was built on the principle of "I'll do it MYYYYYYYY way!" "I'm clever enough; I'm strong enough; I'm crappy enough."

Now, God doesn't mind our honest questions and being grappled with. The Bible contains many stories of people grappling with God. That's a good thing—God wants us to engage, to struggle, to seek. But it was time for Jacob to learn, and to submit.

Gn. 32.25: "When the man saw that he could not overpower him..." This is not to claim that Jacob is pinning him to the ground and the guy is ready to tap out. It's about that after a life of resistance, Jacob is still fighting! The ease with which the man inflicts damage on Jacob (the hip—a wrestler's power center) with a touch shows that the man is by far the superior. But again, the physical is the parable of the spiritual. If the wrestler is unable to overcome Jacob, we're talking now about spiritual things, not physical ones. Jacob doesn't know how to yield; he doesn't know how to back off or submit. So "God" (angel, whichever) shows Jacob that his power center needs to yield for God to make any progress with him.

Jacob says, "Bless me!" He has been changed by his experience. His defiance has turned to dependence. He must realize that he can connive and cheat, but he can't bring spiritual blessing to himself. He knows now that he has to submit to God's demands on him. The man changes his name from Jacob to Israel (another parable in real life). Name changing was a way of exercising authority over another person. Jacob accepts the name change, which in this case means he accepted the Lordship of his opponent. His name is changed from "Supplanter" (I do my own fighting) to "God will fight for you."

Jacob understood all of this, of course (I'm not making it up). In v. 30 he called the place Peniel: I saw God face to face, and he didn't kill me." We're not to think Jacob was besting his opponent. Jacob knew this was about his spiritual attitude and his past and future.

[Newbie]

If it is more a fictional work as you propose with an underlying moral message related to the Christian God. How do we determine which parts of the Bible are fictional works and which part are genuine a telling of things that really happened?
I think there can be only two interpretations of this passage either Jacob genuinely wrestled with God in the physical sense or the telling is a fictional work with a moral message. You can't include clearly physical descriptions of this meeting as the Bible and then say it is historical if the events were not actually physical.

I can't invent a war between America and Australia to convey some moral message and then say my work is purely historical for example.

[jimwalton]

I agree that we can't just make up stuff. You seem to have misunderstood my point. I wasn't claiming the story is fictional. But, for instance, the historical can still have a moral message and a parabolic point. Winston Churchill, in WWII, fought hard in the psyche of the British people to persevere and conquer. He is famous for his line about, "Never Give Up!" It was historical, but it's a parable for us all as well. So also the story of the bombing of Pearl Harbor in WWII. It has become a parable of readiness, of mistakes, or surprise, and of SNAFUS. And yet it was historical. That's what I'm saying about Jacob wrestling with God. It happened; it was real, and Jacob limped. But it's a parable for him and for all of us about resisting God or submitting to him. That's what I meant.

It's different than inventing a war to create a moral message and then claim it's historical. In this case it's a historical incident that happens (by God's design) to have a strong moral message.