Board index Specific Bible verses, texts, and passages Hebrews

Hebrews 6:4-6

Postby Donna S » Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:57 pm

Hi Jim!
I apologize as I'm sure this has been asked before, but I am fairly new and not sure how to successfully navigate, therefore briefly scanning I wasn't able to come across it on here.
So I strongly believe that once saved always saved and yet these verses always tend to bring question to my mind. I heard it said that he was talking to unsaved Jews here, but words such as, enlightened, tasted, partakers...?
Can you give me your opinion on whether or not this is saying one can lose their salvation? I tend to believe not...there are so many, myself included, that have fallen away and returned to find the love of Jesus stronger than ever before.
Thank you Jim. I'd like to be able to come across this verse and not have to be concerned. ;)


Hebrews 6:4-6
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Donna S
 
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Re: Hebrews 6:4-6

Postby jimwalton » Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:07 pm

Glad to discuss this with you.

It is often wondered whether the first half of Hebrews 6 implies (or says explicitly) that a Christian can lose his or her salvation. There are no less than seven places in Hebrews, however, where the author affirms that salvation is permanent:

1. Heb. 6.19: We have this hope as an anchor for the soul, firm and secure

2. Heb. 7.25: Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.

3. Heb. 9. 15: For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called today receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.

4. Heb. 10.14: Because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.

5. Heb. 10.22: let us draw near to God with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water.

6. Heb. 12.23: To the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven...

7. Heb. 12.28: Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, let us be thankful...

In the book of Hebrews, the author assumes that no true Christian would ever fall away, and the only people who ever fall away were not true believers to begin with. He also assumes that just because you made a decision for Christ at one point in time is no indication that you are truly saved (see also the Parable of the Sower told by Jesus where the plants in soils 2 & 3 had accepted the Word but without true life and growth).

There are other powerful spiritual forces at work in people that can imitate and simulate the power of God (Mt. 7.22)—specifically designed and executed to deceive people (Mt. 24.24; 2 Cor. 11.13-14; Rev. 13.14). Neither having seen, tasted, and shared is ever a guarantee that a person is a true follower of Jesus. People use God for their own ends. People follow falsely and claim many things falsely. This strikes a common biblical note, namely how close to spiritual reality one may come while knowing nothing of its fundamental reality (e.g., Balaam; Judas Iscariot; Mk. 9.38-39; 1 Cor. 13.2; Heb. 3.14; 1 Jn. 2.19). 2 Timothy 3.5 speaks of "having a form of godliness but denying its power."

I argue that these verses (Heb. 6.4-6) aren’t a reference to Christians. See the context: 3.7-11; 4.2; 6.7-8. He is talking about the Jews who think they have an automatic "in" because they are Jews. But the author is saying that the Israelites in the wilderness weren’t spared God’s judgment just because they were Jews. No one gets a free pass. That also applies to us as Christians: You have to claim Christ and walk in Him, not just be along for the ride.

There's plenty more to talk about in these verse, so ask if you want to pursue it further.
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Re: Hebrews 6:4-6

Postby Donna S » Mon Nov 02, 2020 8:56 pm

Hi Jim!
Thank you. It's been a crazy few days and I'm just not able to give this the time that I want to give it. Reading your reply I'm not quite sure I'm following you? But I promise to come back later in the week and go over it again. It's a question I've struggled with every time I come across it and I do want to figure it all out. Thanks again and I will talk with you soon.
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Re: Hebrews 6:4-6

Postby Donna S » Sun Nov 08, 2020 5:20 pm

Hi Jim!
As soon as I posted this question things kind of wet haywire around here, I apologize.
I find it difficult to think that Paul, assuming that Paul wrote Hebrews, would not be aware that true Christians do indeed fall away. We see this continually in our lives with the people around us, I for one was one of them. Surely there were backsliders in his day? Isn't that what the story of the Prodigal son shows us, that it is possible to fall away and yet return to the arms of a loving God?
I do understand that some will say that they have a personal relationship with the Lord when in reality they do not, but there are those, I know a few myself, that truly gave their lives to Him, were no doubt made brand new, and then fell away. Today they still believe, still believe they are saved, but show no growth. For those, I fear. Can a person ask Jesus into their heart, have a clear change in their life, growing in Him for many years, and then fall away to the point that there is no more growth years later? It's difficult to know if a person is truly saved. And quite upsetting if someone that you truly care about.
But back to the text...the words enlightened, tasted, partakers...again, these words sound to me like he is addressing those that have accepted and been made born again. I do very much believe that once saved always saved, yes, there are many verses that give us this assurance, I have seen in my own life how the Lord never left me no matter how far away I got, but gosh, these verses still confuse me.
Thank you so much for your reply. I will look into this more. And I do apologize for my delay at getting back to you. ;)
Donna S
 
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Re: Hebrews 6:4-6

Postby jimwalton » Sun Nov 08, 2020 6:20 pm

Hey, Donna. Good to hear from you.

I would say the Bible draws a clear distinction between falling away and apostasy. Though we cannot read hearts and the distinction is not always clear to us (we are often unclear about many people), to God the difference is as clear as the difference between sheep and goats. God is never fooled (Mt. 7.21-23; Lk. 13.22-30).

I see a very helpful text in 2 Tim. 2.12-13. There (in my opinion) we see a clear difference between faithfulness (falling away, backsliding) and apostasy).

if we endure,
we will also reign with him.
If we disown him,
he will also disown us;
if we are faithless,
he remains faithful,
for he cannot disown himself.


It's a fairly common perspective that the book of Hebrews was written to the Hebrew people, and therefore it pertains particularly to them and their various perspectives. (That's not to say it wasn't written for us, because it was. But it was not written to us. It was written to them, but it's still written for us. Does that make sense?

Scholars like Craig Hill says, "Interpreting this text traditionally (as a discussion of Christian immaturity and maturity) misses the whole point. The author’s theme is not moral or spiritual dullness that needs a refresher course." The book was written, he says, to Hebrew people who were still trying to get by on their Jewishness (a common theme of Paul's). The "foundational Christian doctrine" mentioned in Heb. 6.1-2 is not distinctly or uniquely Christian. "It could play in any 1st-century synagogue." The items that eventually distinguish Christianity from Judaism are not in the list of vv. 1-2, and "Jesus is Lord" is conspicuously absent.

Ken Wuest writes, "The section (5.11-6.12) consists of a description of the spiritual status of the Jew to whom the writer wishes to reach, of a warning not to go back to the abrogated sacrifices of the Levitical system, and of an exhortation to put a heart faith in the NT sacrifice, the Messiah."

Again, Craig Hill: "The audience is not in danger of apostasy related to a continual sub-par, immature Christianity. Rather, they are in danger of exchanging the perfect and more specific teaching about Jesus the Messiah in favor of the imperfect and more general teaching about the Messiah in the old covenant."

Matthew McAfee: "The issue in this passage is not so much a matter of determining whether or not this list describes genuine believers. The text assumes they are members of the covenant community who have experienced the good word of God’s promised rest in the now, and who are destined to experience the powers of the age to come should they persevere. In the same way, the OT covenant context assumes that the members of the wilderness wanderings were members of the covenant community; what was not a given, however, was that all covenant members would by necessity achieve the promised rest. "

Gordon Fee: "Backsliders cannot lose their salvation. However, God will not save a person against their will: if you openly abandon God, he will."

So let's look at those terms in that light. They should be interpreted with the Old Testament force.

"Enlightened." Enlightened is an OT word referring to teaching or instruction. These are people who had been given the Law; they had received the teachings from God. They had been taught and responded positively, but failed to trust the Lord (Dt. 1). The same is true for us today. Many people have the truth, but fail to trust the Lord.

"Tasted." "Tasted" means "to experience." The Jews in the OT sent out spies; they saw the land and heard the promises of God, and yet they turned back. The Jews in the first-century church are making the same mistake: They received all the revelation available, and yet still want to live by law rather than grace. The high-handed sin of apostasy is plaguing them as it did their forebears (Num. 14-15). Just as Paul said in Galatians 3.1-14; 5.1-2: If you turn back, Christ is of no value to you. George Guthrie writes, "The language here is reminiscent of those who fell in the desert through lack of faith even though they had heard God’s voice and seen his mighty acts (3.7-11). Even though they had experienced God’s word and power, they were never people of faith."

"Partakers" (shared in). Oh, the Israelites sure shared in what God was doing. They were sure glad to leave Egypt, sure glad to eat the quail and manner, and drink the water from the rock. They were willing participators in what God was doing, but their hearts were full of rebellion, as we see all through Numbers.

These messages are for us as well. People who have heard the Word, who have even experienced the promises of God, who were certainly glad to go along for the ride as long as the going was good—but it was never in their hearts. It's the second and third soils in the Parable of the Sower. It's the Jews of the wilderness generation. It's the Christians who are carnal. It's the Christian-in-name-only" fakers. It's the "Christians" who say they have professed Christ but did not have a genuine conversion experience and are not indwelt by the Holy Spirit.
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Re: Hebrews 6:4-6

Postby Donna S » Fri Nov 13, 2020 7:27 pm

Thank you Jim! I think I finally get it with your last post. For some reason, even now when I read 6:4-6 I see those who were enlightened, had tasted the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost as those that had been born again, filled with the Spirit of God, but your explanation makes sense when put in the context of what and who he was addressing. Which is what I originally had always heard, that he was talking to unsaved Jews. Put into context I get it. But yeah, it's easy to see those few verses differently when not examined more deeply.
Thank you for your time on this. :)
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