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How do we know there's a God? What is he like?

Does God care for the nations?

Postby Kata Plasma » Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:52 pm

Most contemporary interpretations of the book of Jonah place emphasis on God's final word, reading it as a question.

You are concerned about the bush, for which you did not labor and which you did not grow; it came into being in a night and perished in a night. And should I not be concerned about Nineveh, that great city, in which there are more than a hundred and twenty thousand persons who do not know their right hand from their left, and also many animals?”

Jonah 4:10-11

The implication being that God does care about pagan cities and pagan peoples, even the most wicked among them. But does a contradiction emerge from this reading when we compare it with statements like these found in other prophets?

All the nations are as nothing before God; they are accounted by him as less than nothing and emptiness.

Isaiah 40:17

All the peoples of the earth are counted as nothing, and God does as He pleases with the army of heaven and the peoples of the earth. There is no one who can restrain His hand or say to Him, 'What have You done?'"

Daniel 4:35

As for the other nations (i. e. not Israel) which have descended from Adam, you have said that they are nothing, and that they are like spittle, and you have compared their abundance to a drop from a bucket.

2 Esdras 6:56

It would seem that whereas God has a special relationship with and concern for Israel (i. e. God has made certain promises to Israel that he must be true to), God is no respecter of the pagans. God establishes and extinguishes the pagan nations as he sees fit, often on Israel's behalf.

Would it therefore be better to read God's final words in Jonah as a statement rather than as a question? Under this reading, God would vindicate Jonah's concern for justice, affirming that he will indeed destroy Nineveh (cf. Nahum), and neither the city's size nor its ignorance will restrain his wrath.
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Re: Does God care for the nations?

Postby jimwalton » Wed Jul 01, 2020 3:12 pm

God cares for the nations. the problem with your cutting-and-pasting texts is ignoring the contexts.

Jonah 4.10-11. It shows God loves the world (Jn. 3.16) and wishes to bless all nations (Gn. 12.3). God does care about pagan cities and pagan peoples, even the most wicked among them, as you have said.

Isa. 40.17. The passage is not saying that God doesn't care about the nations or the people in them. The passage is about the greatness of God, and in comparison to him, the nations are like nothing. Isaiah paints a breathtaking picture of God in vv. 12-26, showing how compared to God, everything else is insignificant. Compared to the greatness of God, humans are like grass. Compared to the wisdom of God, people are foolish. Compared to God's kingdom, the nations are like a drop in a bucket (v. 15). It's not saying He doesn't care for them.

Daniel 4.35. The same thing. For all the questions you ask on this forum, I would expect you to be a more thorough Bible student than this. Nebuchadnezzar (Dn. 4.34) is declaring the greatness of God and the eternity of His dominion. By comparison, the nations of the Earth are like dust. God is on the throne, not men.

> Would it therefore be better to read God's final words in Jonah as a statement rather than as a question?

No. It's a rhetorical question expecting the answer that God cares for everyone.
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Re: Does God care for the nations?

Postby Kata Plasma » Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:20 pm

I disagree that these authors are simply comparing the greatness of God to the nothingness of the nations. There is an implied contrast between God's care for Israel and God's disregard for their enemies. Such nations are "worthless" to God. Isaiah 40 has in view God's destruction of Babylon in order to rescue Israel.
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Re: Does God care for the nations?

Postby jimwalton » Fri Jun 16, 2023 4:24 pm

The contrast is between God and not-God, not between Israel and Babylon. Isaiah 40 begins addressing the question on people's minds: Doesn’t the exile of the israelites prove that God had either forsaken his people or was not the Lord of history? Doesn’t it indicate He was unable to protect his people or that he had been defeated by His people’s pernicious sinfulness? Isaiah’s answer to both questions is a resounding "No"! The exile was part of the plan; God was still sovereign; God was still faithful.

Vv. 1-4: Be comforted. Israel has been disciplined and the time of restoration has come.

V. 5: The obvious and public glory of God will be revealed.

vv. 6-8: People (ALL people) are temporal; God is eternal.

Vv. 9-11: This is good news for Israel. Their exile is drawing to a close. The sovereign Lord will bring it about.

V. 12: 'Lest you think God can't pull this off, look at who God is! His power is great and His majesty unparalleled.

Vv. 13-14: God's wisdom is without peer. He has no superior.

Vv. 15-17: The nations are subject to His will. They will not be able to prevent the Lord from restoring Israel from exile.

Vv. 18-24: God has no peer. His sovereignty and greatness have no competition. The Earth is a mere tent; people are mere grasshoppers; rulers are powerless compared to the greatness of God.

Vv. 25-31: God has no peer. He is Creator of all, everlasting, sovereign, wise, indefatigable, strong, and just.

So where in the world do you get the idea that implied contrast is between God's care for Israel and God's disregard for their enemies? And where in the world do you get that ch. 40 has in view God's destruction of Babylon in order to rescue Israel? That idea is nowhere in the text.

And, by the way, Babylon was not destroyed in order to rescue Israel. According to the Bible, Babylon fell because of their own sin (Dan. 5.26-28).

Israel was exiled in 3 waves: 605, 597, and 586. They returned in 3 waves: 538, 458, and 444 BC.


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