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I believe that God is God and that he sent his Son to earth to die for our sins so we can go to heaven. But other than that, I don't see Him at work on earth any more as in Bible times. I see people that try to see His hand in every coincidence or want desperately to feel like some good has come out of the bad things Satan is doing through even Gods People. But all the statements about him being our "Strength" , our "refuge", giving us "peace" in times of sorrow, our "deliverer", etc. etc. It's just not there. No matter how hard or selflessly prayers are put out. There is no answer. We are at the mercy of random acts of sinful people. If a Christian decides to run a red light and they hit a car with another Christian in it and kill them. It was their decision to run the red light. Being a Christian didn't save the person who died, being a Christian didn't help him make a better decision not to run the red light. The family that lost their loved one won't mourn any less over the death. The financial loss won't be any better.

That poem about going through the valley and difficult times and then looking back and seeing that God's footsteps were right beside you the whole time doesn't help when you never knew He was there, never felt His presence, never felt His strength or healing powers. I think God has deserted us to the evil that is overwhelming the world and our lot is to suffer till the Second Coming.

[jimwalton]

What a great post. Thank you so much. Sorry for the delay in response; I've been away from the Internet for a few days. I'd like to answer you as honestly as I can, and for that reason the post might be a little long. Have patience with it. I'd rather give you the real answer, even though it might be lengthy, than a cheap answer. I'll also say, though, that my answer will take two different directions, so don's just read halfway down and think you got the point. Just sayin'.

Having said all that, I'll also say this as a way to preface my answer. About 10-12 years ago I had the exact same wondering that you are having, was observing the same things, and thinking the same thoughts. Hopefully that gives me an honest platform from which to answer your questions. It's an "I've been there, done that" kind of scene. I also hope that if you have further questions or want to talk about it further, that the things I say will encourage you to ask more or talk more.

So here's what I have. As I said, a number of years ago I was feeling very deserted by God, and that he wasn't anywhere or doing anything. If he was around, he was clearly ignoring me, and there was no reason to have him as God. I might as well been worshiping the wall and talking to the ceiling, you know what I mean? He wasn't answering any prayers. My life was a tangled mess, and he didn't seem to be helping in the least. Even though I had been a Christian "my whole life," I thought it might be wise to do a very deep Bible study on "What does God do, anyway?" Y'know, I had these expectations, from what I had been taught, and it (he) just wasn't there. There were many, many dark nights (and days). Here's what I found. (And here's where I need to be thorough, both for your sake and for the sake of others who may read this.) Almost everything the Bible says in the NT about what God does for us has to do with salvation: forgiveness, redemption, justification, etc. Almost everything. So I looked even harder and deeper: Other than salvation, how does God help me through life? Here's what I found:

1. Comfort in time of mourning (Matthew 5.4; 2 Corinthians 1.4; 7.6); rest (Matthew 10.28), and peace (John 16.33; 14.27; Romans 5.1; 15.13; Philippians 4.7, 9)
2. May answer some requests in prayer (Matthew 7.11; James 5.15-16)
3. Gives me words to say at martyrdom or oppression (Matthew 10.19)
4. Teaches me about Himself:
a. Gives knowledge of himself (Romans 1.19-20; 1 Corinthians 4.1; 2 Corinthians 4.6; Ephesians 1.17)
b. Gives knowledge of his kingdom (Matthew 13.11)
c. Makes his righteousness known (Romans 3.21)
d. Gives knowledge of his will (Colossians 1.15) and equips us to do it (Hebrews 13.21)
e. Gives knowledge of salvation (Hebrews 2.4)
5. Gives me the Holy Spirit
a. teach me about God (John 14.26) (see 4a above)
b. helps me in my weakness (Romans 8.26)
c. intercedes for me in prayer (Romans 8.26-27) (see #2 above)
d. gives me spiritual gifts to use in ministry for Him (Romans 12.6ff; 1 Corinthians 12.4ff; Ephesians 4.11)
e. seals me for the day of redemption (Ephesians 4.30)
6. God is always at work to mold us and make us into his image, which is possible through any circumstance. (Romans 8.28; 2 Corinthians 2.14; 3.18; Ephesians 1.4; Hebrews 13.21) He is renewing us day by day (2 Corinthians 4.16) and making us righteous (2 Corinthians 9.10)
7. Gives me faith in differing amounts (Romans 12.3)
8. Plays some role in installing and deposing governing authorities (Romans 13.1-5).
9. Gives me strength, endurance and encouragement (Romans 15.5; 1 Corinthians 1.8; 2 Corinthians 1.21; 4.7, 11, 16; 12.9; Colossians 1.11; 1 Peter 4.11; 5.10)
10. Gives a spirit of unity (Romans 15.5) among Christians
11. Gives us joy (Romans 15.13; 2 Corinthians 8.2)
12. Enriches me in every way: in speech and knowledge and good works (1 Corinthians 1.5; 2.13; 2 Corinthians 9.8, 10-11) (See #4 above)
13. Provides a way of escape from temptation (1 Corinthians 10.13)
14. Gives me grace (2 Corinthians 9.14; 12.9; Ephesians 4.7; James 4.6)
15. Blesses me in the heavenly realms with spiritual blessings (Ephesians 1.3)
16. Disciplines us for our good (Hebrews 12.10)
17. Generously gives us wisdom (James 1.5)
18. He comes near to us when we come near to him (James 4.8)
19. Cooperates with doctors and medicinal treatments to bring healing to the sick (James 5.15)

I was shocked. To me it was fascinating to see that there was almost nothing here about God changing our circumstances. Almost everything in the New Testament (at least 98-99%) of what God does for us is internal, spiritual things. Almost none of it, if any, pertains to our external lives, our circumstances, our money, our possessions, our health, our relationships, or anything else.

That was a stunning revelation to me about what God does and does not do, as a matter of his normal way of treating us, and concerning the things we pray about and pray for. It seems to me that probably 98% of our prayers are about our circumstances of health, money, possessions, relationships, and jobs, when 98% of what God does has nothing to do with circumstances. Working inside us for our spiritual welfare is God’s normal pattern of working. No wonder people get so frustrated with their prayer lives and God not answering their requests for a change of circumstance. Generally speaking, God does not involve himself in our circumstances. His interest, by his own revelation, is in our souls.

So that's important. You need to keep reading, but you can see that for the most part God doesn't give us good parking spots, green lights when we're late, healing when we're sick, good jobs, stable relationships, etc. Now, this is earth shattering to some people, and heretical to others (that's why I had to include all the Scriptures). My study of Scripture shows that God hardly ever intervenes in the processes of our lives. He almost always lets life take its course. And when I read the New Testament, that truth doesn’t change. Almost all of what God does is internal, not circumstantial. People get sick; people have accidents; some get better, some die. Is it random? That’s a difficult and misleading word. To some extent it might be perceived as random, as much as cause-and-effect can be. Of course, cause and effect has a pattern to it: certain illnesses are generally fatal, as are certain accidents. Does it mean we are just victims of fate? No, that’s a pagan belief, and the terminology is misleading, but the concept is close. God lets life take its course and rarely intervenes.

People so often get angry at God because he doesn’t intervene or help them. Is it justified? No—He never taught them that He would intervene, or ever promised intervention. People misunderstand what God is up to in the world and what His normal course of action in it is. What God is up to in the world is creating a holy people for Himself, and by his own revelation he does that primarily through work inside the soul.

Does this lead us to despair, or to feel like the victims of circumstance? Absolutely not. Circumstance from cause and effect is a reality, but we’re not fatalistic victims. The Bible never teaches that we are victims of fate.

God, for the most part, and under normal conditions, is remarkably uninvolved in the circumstances—the events—of our lives. For the most part, and sometimes completely, he does not do anything to change the circumstances of our lives. Many people probably go their whole lives with God doing hardly anything for them regarding their circumstances. Some people get to see him do one or two things that are undeniable in their lives. But we must understand the hard truth that it is against the character and nature of God to interfere in our circumstances, and he hardly ever does it.

The Bible is a record of the times when God has intervened, and most of those are because he absolutely had to to bring about his plan of salvation. So the Bible is full of examples of God intervening in spectacular ways, but a closer reading shows that he normally does no such thing.

We also must realize that when in the Old Testament we see a record of God’s intervention it’s almost always with kings and prophets and almost never with common people. Their lives go on as they normally would have, full of whatever successes and failures, pleasures and suffering that the course of events would normally bring them. God doesn’t stop anything; he doesn’t change anything. Even in the lives of the prophets and priests, his interventions are minimal. There are maybe four times in the life of Abraham when we see such interventions; maybe seven in the life of David. What is shocking is that these interventions are recorded for us as an abnormally large number. There are a lot of interventions in the life of Moses, but that was a very special time, just as the time of Jesus, and the book of Acts. Those are not normal eras in any sense of the word, and they are not to be taken as normative.

What does this say about God? It makes clear that God’s interest is in spiritual things, not circumstantial ones. His actions are within the heart and soul far more than within circumstances. He will intervene in circumstances when it suits His purposes, and the Scripture is full of what, in reality, are the isolated examples of that. People’s lives also contain limited examples of God’s direct intervention – but those are very limited. Does it mean that God doesn’t care? On the contrary, He cares greatly about our souls, and he works within any circumstance to make us into His. But change the circumstances? Hardly ever. I could talk a whole lot more about this, but need to keep going; this is too long already. There's another side to it, and I just HAVE to say it.

God is vibrantly active in this world and in our lives. But almost all of his activity in the world, almost without exception, is though people. (Sort of like when we say "The FDA ruled such and such," or "The White House today said," it's PEOPLE doing that. It's the FDA, but it's a person making the ruling. Sure, The White House, but it's a person, or people doing that.) Because of the teamwork between God and his people, the lines between what we do and what God does are so blurred that you can almost never tell where God’s hand stops and where ours begins. And that’s even a misleading concept. It’s more like fabric that’s interwoven than “sides” or “hands”. In other words, it’s not so much like a layer cake where you can tell where one stops and the other stops. It’s more like chocolate milk, all shaken and stirred, and you can’t tell where the milk stops and the chocolate starts because they become the same substance.

We live by faith, not by sight, and any skeptic would claim, “That’s just something you did.” That’s because God’s hand is my hand, and my hand is God’s hand, so of course that’s what it looks like to someone else, and to us, for that matter. We need to learn to have spiritual eyes, and even those might not be able to tell, but the Bible explains it all to us quite well, and we understand by faith that God’s work in the world is by our hands. Look at the story of David and Abigail in 1 Sam. 25. She intercepted and stopped David, but said, “The Lord kept you from bloodshed” (1 Sam. 25.26). Even though Abigail made the decision to intervene, David says, “God sent you today to meet me.” You see how this works? We submit ourselves to God’s control, and then God acts through us. No one can tell what is God’s part and what is our part, because God and me work as a single unit of operation. God acts in the world almost exclusively through our activity. We live by faith, not by sight, and if God is going to help someone in this world, it’s because I choose to act. You can find the same truths in the stories of Nehemiah, Zacchaeus, Joseph, the Good Samaritan, or a hundred others.

C.S. Lewis, in "Prince Caspian", had Aslan and the Kings and Queens gone from Narnia for 1300 years. Completely gone. No word, no help, and everything had fallen to pieces and paganism. We also know that God was prophetically silent for 400 years between Malachi and John the Baptist. Some people truthfully wonder if we are experiencing something like that now—that God is silent, and we are "on our own." That's OK if they wonder that; sometimes I wonder it myself. Except we know that it's NEVER like that. We aren't on our own. Even in Narnia, the talking animals were still around; they were just in hiding. The stories of Aslan were still told and believed. And Aslan had never deserted them, but we secretly active in the lives of those who still believed. That's the way it ALWAYS is. God is still vibrantly active, but mostly in the inner lives of people as they quietly and "secretly" do his work. For those who have eyes to see, God is everywhere and active. (Though I'll agree that lots of people make up where they see God because they see what they want to see. But that doesn't detract from the truth.) Occasionally God is visible in a circumstance, and it may be that he's involved in a whole lot more circumstances than any of us can see. That's where we believe by faith, knowing that the Bible teaches that God is wildly active all around us, though he may be hidden in plain sight, and most of his activity is inside of people and in motivating people to do Kingdom work.

I better stop now. I've written WAY too long a piece. But I had to tell you the truth. Please write back to me if you want to talk about this more.

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That was a LONG answer. But I waded through it and I'm confused and still feel no different about what I wrote. A lot of your list of 18 different things that "God helps me through life" are things I mentioned that God DOESN'T do for me. He doesn't give me comfort #1, He doesn't "help me in my weakness" #5b, He doesn't give me strength , endurance and encouragement #9, and NO WAY does He give a spirit of unity among Christians #10, etc. etc.

Your last one, #19, states that He "cooperates with Doctors..." , but then you say right-off-the-bat that "Almost none of it, pertains to our external lives, our circumstances, money, possessions, our HEALTH...." What am I missing? Sounds like a contradiction.

Either way, my statement wasn't just about circumstances but also about spiritual things. God is not giving me the spiritual things I'm in need of or asking Him for. "Strength, refuge, and peace" I understand that you're saying that we may not be able to count on Him to change our circumstances, butI say we should at least be able to count on Him for spiritual help with all the garbage even our fellow "Christians" put us through. When we ask for peace He should be able to do that much for us!

[jimwalton]

Thanks for pushing further to get a clearer answer.

Let's talk about the specific examples you gave, and maybe that will guide you to other answers on your own. COMFORT. In the first place, our comfort comes not from the working out of our circumstances but in the knowledge of our God. Ps. 23.4 says, "Your rod and your staff comfort me." If we know God, meditate in his presence, become acquainted with what kind of a person He is and how He works, we can find comfort in the relationship. Notice in that verse (Ps. 23.4) it's in the valley of the shadow of death, meaning that your world is upside down, threatening, dreadful, and filled with trouble. In other words, situation "normal". Life itself is a "valley of the shadow of death." We take comfort in the person of God, and our relationship with him. Picture this: when something terrible happens in your family (oh, let's pick something simply awful like the death of a loved one), you find comfort in each other's hugs and tears. It doesn't make the situation go away, but you find comfort in the relationship in the middle of all the garbage. Same thing here. Comfort is in the relationship, not because anything necessarily gets any better. Look at Psalm 119.49-52. It's God's word (the promises, the covenant relationship) that comforts and gives hope. It's not physical arms that surround us, but the "loving arms of God" that comfort us. It's our understanding of who he is, who he works, how the world works, and that comfort is in our knowledge, not the circumstances (2 Cor. 1.4—we're still having the troubles). Again, suppose you are a prisoner, and, horribly, being tortured. From your dungeon a message circulates that in 7 days you will be rescued and all this agony will end. That message all by itself gives comfort, even though you have seven more days in agony (Isa. 40.2). But if you say, "That's no good. Unless my circumstances change, the comfort doesn't work." Now you're back to talking about circumstances, not your inner self.

HELP ME IN MY WEAKNESS. I had quoted Rom. 8.26, but I could also go to 2 Cor. 12.9. When I am feeling weak, I have several choices: (1) try to be stronger; (2) do everything to fix my own situation; (3) get somebody to help me. The third one is what the verses are talking about. Spiritual oppression and circumstantial garbage is upsetting, and can make us angry and bitter. I can try to fix the situation, which can be a good choice, but some situations aren't fixable. I can try to be stronger, which can be a good thing, but sometimes my strength isn't enough, and the fact that the situation might not be fixable keeps clubbing me from behind, and I just can't handle it any more. In that case the best choice is number 3: get somebody to help. When I choose this, I am also choosing submission, humility, and dependence. Those responses are all ones that allow God to work. If we pray with humility and dependence that God would fill us with himself, because we're feeling quite empty and inadequate, and just work on the relationship with him, the grit of the unresolved circumstance will come under the strength of that prayer. It will only be from a position of weakness that we will have the power of the Holy Spirit active in our lives.

ENDURANCE. You're obviously still alive and kicking (kicking hard against the pain), which is a good sign of endurance. The growth from that will be where you find strength. Any good athlete will tell you that physical stress is the only way to increase strength. Any person of God will tell you that any circumstantial or spiritual stress is the only way to increase strength as well. But the pain only leads to growth as we learn where the growth is in it, rather than just being bitter about having the pain. When a love one dies, one response is to curl up in a corner, and another is to find other loved ones and embrace. The second choice is the better one: find the relationship in the pain rather than isolation.

I know these are very difficult things, and I don't say them lightly. None of this is easy. Your best recourse is to have the strongest relationship possible with the God who loves you, and to stay open to the relationships of the people who love you. All of these traits we're talking about function best in the context of a deep relationship with God.