Board index ‹ Sex

[Mighty Mike]

a 30yo man marries and has sex with a 14yo girl, is this wrong and would you accept it now?

why or why not?

[jimwalton]

Using the Bible, your hypothetical sex situation is wrong.

The Bible is not a moral textbook, but it has lots of teaching about morality in it. It never claims to show every possible situation, moral or ethical treatises, or complete lists of what is moral and what is not. Many of the "laws" in the Bible are casuistic, not apodictic: they give us hypothetical situations to guide us to wisdom, not complete lists of rules to cover every situation. It does, however, give us principles that guide us in moral situations.

So saying, moral sex in the Bible is always taught as the responsible physical interaction between two consenting adults. Every story or teaching has this as the context and the teaching. There is no situation where sexual abuse, exploitation, or such mismatching (as a 30M with a 14F) is treated as acceptable. Since the Bible is most often casuistic, we take from the examples and teaching it gives that such a marital mismatch would not be anything that a judge of the day or families of the day would approve of.

If you know of a biblical example to the contrary, that's what we should discuss.

[Mighty Mike]

The 10 commandments are literally moral rules for you all to follow, nowhere in the bible is this condemned, it could spend time to talk about mixed fabrics and condemn gay acts but not this?

According to the bible and the culture around that time a girl was a woman or alma once she started her period, most people believe even mary was around 14-16

[jimwalton]

> The 10 commandments are literally moral rules for you all to follow

They are not. As Daniel Block comments, "This document is to be interpreted, not as a legal code, but as a statement of covenantal policy. ... They are so general as to be virtually unenforceable through the judicial system. ... Instead of serving as a mere listing of commands, the Decalogue serves more as a bill of rights. By casting each of the terms in the second person of direct address, the document is addressed, not to potential victims of crime, but to a would-be perpetrator of a crime against God or the community. What is being protected is not one’s own right, but the rights of the next person. The addressee is perceived as a threat to the community. Indeed, each of the terms may be recast as a statement of the other person’s rights and addressee’s responsibility to guard the rights of others."

John Walton writes, "The 10 Commandments are often understood as the summary and most important part of biblical law. But the term “commandments” is misleading—the Bible never calls them that, but rather the “ten words.” They do not and cannot stand as the summary of the law or be singled out as more important than the rest. They function the way the rest of the Torah functions—a list of illustrations that serve to circumscribe, in part, the realm of legal wisdom.

"The Decalogue is focused on directing Israel to construct an identity as the people of God. It provides information about the shape of the covenant community (Ex. 20.12), both in terms of how the people interact with YHWH and in terms of how they interact with one another.

"The Torah was not intended to establish or reflect an ideal society, but instead how Israel ought to conduct itself given the structure of society. It is the people that are expected to be transformed, not the shape or structure of society. They are given a mission statement, not a revised curriculum. ... The law is not intended to give a universal moral/ethical system. It was designed to help Israel know that divine favor is extended as it maintains this sort of order as his covenant people in the presence of a holy God."

> nowhere in the bible is this condemned

As I said, the Bible never claims to give universal and comprehensive lists of ethical breaches. There are many unethical and immoral actions that are not specifically condemned by the Bible. Instead, we look for the principles. The question for you to answer is: "Where in the Bible are such things made OK?"

> it could spend time to talk about mixed fabrics and condemn gay acts but not this?

There are many subjects we wish the Bible would comment on, but it doesn't. The Bible never professes to be a complete guide to moral subject matter. Nevertheless, it has plenty to say about sexuality, and condemning exploitation, abuse, and sexual morality.

> According to the bible and the culture around that time a girl was a woman or alma once she started her period, most people believe even mary was around 14-16

So what. Your point is wondering about the morality of a marriage of a 30M with a 14F. That girls often got married around 14-16 doesn't speak to your point. So did the boys marry at age 14-16. So what. What you need to show is that the Bible endorses such things as a mismatched marriage. That's what you need to provide now to continue your case.

[Mighty Mike]

Many christians would not agree with you and will stand by the bible and god being the source of their moral compass, however isnt this an oversight of your god? if we can have laws that covers such a wide range of issues as humans yet your god cant?

Are we then better than he is?

[jimwalton]

Ah, the go-to when you want to stick to your claim no matter what: "Well, other Christians don't see it that way." What you need to show me is where the Bible endorses such things as a mismatched marriage. Burden's on you. I notice how you're trying to change the subject to "God is inadequate." Let's stick to the subject, and you can show me a text that supports your hypothetical.

[Mighty Mike]

Cop out? You all don't agree on next to anything, that's not my fault.

Mary and Joseph.

So care to answer the question now?

[jimwalton]

Sure. Mary and Joseph. We have no idea how old she was; we have no idea how old he was. That answers your question.

Holly Beers (“Women in the Early Church,” Biblical Archaeology Review, Summer 2020, p. 67), writes:

"In the 1st century, women usually married shortly after puberty, around the ages of 12-14. For men, marrying in the late teens or early 20s was the norm."