Board index ‹ The Problem of Evil and Suffering

[MolyRoly]

I have lived the most recent years of my life in severe pain. i have seen dozens of doctors, taken more medicine than any person should ever take, and yet my life gets worse. I feel that I am losing my marriage, ruining my family, and ignoring my children. My relationship with God in in the toilet, and I feel that my faith is worthless. I have prayed so hard, and my friends just tell me I need more faith. They throw so many worthless cliches at me and they are making me so angry I don't want to see them any more. I can't read the Bible without getting angry, and some days I just want to die. I don't know what my future holds; I don't even know what my present holds. All I know is that I can't take this any more.

[jimwalton]

You have to deal with the possibility—which could be very real—that God is not going to take your pain away. I know—the implications of that are awful for your physical being, but I'm thinking about your spiritual being.

Your choices are most likely:
1. Curse God and "die". Desert the faith, as many have. This won't help your pain, though. It will just add spiritual and emotional despair to it.
2. Curse God but keep the faith. This won't help your pain, and you'll be an awfully bitter believer.
3. Curse God and figure out what we're supposed to do when the pain continues. Here's where Scripture speaks:
a. Have the same attitude as Christ Jesus—a very difficult one: Please take this cup away from me, but if you don't, I'll bear it.
b. Take Paul's advice: Take away my thorn in the flesh, but if you don't, I understand that it will keep me dependent on you for EVERYTHING, because every other part of life may be unbearable.
c. More advice from Paul: "But we have this treasure in jars of clay to show that this all-surpassing power is from God and not from us. We are hard pressed on every side, but not crushed; perplexed, but not in despair; persecuted, but not abandoned; struck down, but not destroyed." Read carefully what he is saying: I am SO breakable, SO fragile. I am enduring more than I can handle, but I will not yield. Satan will not have me, no matter what.
d. Have the same attitude as Job: Satan will not have me, NO MATTER WHAT. I will not quit. Talk about pain - read the story of Job. Talk about hopeless and helpless.

I so strongly hope God will answer your prayer and take your pain away. I am praying for you. But if he doesn't? I encourage you to choose #3. It's only a little more difficult than the others, because giving up is easy, and falling into despair is the default mode.

We can only be thankful for each small blessing—tiny as it is. Some of us, for some inexplicable reason, have a harder journey than others. In the concentration camps, I've read, they would praise God for the song of a single bird that brought a slice of beauty to an otherwise hellish existence. The end of Hebrews 11 tells us horrible stories of people homeless, cut in two, and persecuted. Then the beginning of Hebrews 12 tells us they gather in the stands to cheer us on through life, saying, "We've been in those hellish place too. Keep walking!" Then it mentions Jesus who endured the cross. And the message is clear: "This is anything but easy, but it's possible. Don't quit, even though the hell is coming back." Praise God for one evening with your family!

[jimwalton]

The life of the believer is often painted in the Scriptures as one of endurance and overcoming. God doesn't make it easy for us, though I'm not trying to justify the severity of your experience.

Rev 2.7: To the one who overcomes I will give the right to eat from the tree of life.
Rev. 2.9-11 - I know your afflictions...Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer...The one who overcomes will not be hurt at all by the second death.
Rev. 2.17 - to the one who overcomes I will give some of the hidden manna...and a new name.
Rev. 2.26 - to the one who overcomes and does my will to the end I will give authority over the nations
Rev. 3.4 - the one who overcomes will be dressed in white, and I will never blot out his name from the book of life
Rev. 3.12 - the one who overcomes I will make a pillar in the temple of my God...
Rev. 3.21 - to the one who overcomes I will give the right to sit with me on my throne.

and so on, and so on:
The point is clear: life is hard, and knowing God doesn't make the physical part of it any easier. I can't explain the depth of your suffering, but for now I'll tell you this with certainty: God does NOT deliver MILLIONS of us. We read in the Bible about the ones he DID, and we hear testimonies from the few. But for most of us, GOD DOES NOT DELIVER. Ours is a life of suffering, endurance, faith, and overcoming. No one would have to overcome if God just delivered them, or made things easier. But it's not His way. We must endure, and for a reason. Don't think God is cruel. Don't think He is weak. But you must endure. She who endures to the end will find life.

I will pray for you. I will not drift farther away. May the Lord strengthen your inner being. Ephesians 3.16. I have more to say to you as you need it.

[MolyRoly]

I am hanging in there. It is a day to day process. Not a very joyful experience. Going to doctor today hoping to discuss some pain measures. Also waiting to hear from the University Medical headache specialists to get an appointment. Hoping it doesn't take too long. My faith is still teetering. I have NOT given up on God. I'm just tired of crying out and asking and begging. Wondering where He is. Where was He when I was in the hospital in the most absolute excruciating pain—crying out to Him. It is just so perplexing. Instead of becoming closer to Him in times of trouble I have become more terrified of Him. How odd, how strange. That is not what I hear from others' experiences. I just can't seem to understand all this. I know that I am learning things, lessons. The pain is so so great. Some relief would be nice. Thank you for asking. I means tons to me to be able to vent a little. Your prayers, too!!

[jimwalton]

Don't be perplexed. God is in the shadows. He is standing back, wondering if you will exalt him in the darkest of night. We have several examples of this in Scripture, two of which are His own Son:

1. Job certainly felt deserted, wondering where God was and why all the trouble. Where was God when Job needed him most.
2. Jesus, in the wilderness. He was weak, alone (away from family, temple, religious and social support), and after 40 days, when things were at their worst, God let Satan at him to try to tear him down. When Jesus was at his lowest, God let Satan in for his strongest kicks to the throat.
3. Jesus, in the Garden, and on the cross. Crying out to God, feeling the emptiness of God's absence.

God stands back to see how we will act without His prompting. Will we overcome and stay faithful, or will we collapse like a deck of cards? Abraham, on Mt. Moriah: would his faith hold, or would he give in? The prize goes to those who hold on to the anchor while the storm beats the living pulp out of them.

You are expecting God to change your situation, your circumstances, your pain. Maybe he does that for other people, but WHAT IF HE DOESN'T FOR YOU? Is your faith in him dependent on your physical situation? Does it ALL hang on whether or not God does this for you? No, ultimately it doesn't.

The experience of others? Let's talk. They seem to have an easier life (after all, they're comfortable and God answers their prayers!), but ours is a deeper faith. The one who believes only when he has seen can skip through life with happy happy joy, but the one who believes even when he has not seen is resting in deeper waters. Our faith knows the shadows and is not shaken by them. Our faith knows perplexity, but can stay out of despair (2 Cor. 4.8-12). Who is the deeper soul: the one who has it easy, or the one who has to suffer without seeing but hangs on anyway?

Now, you may be thinking, "I would trade that for a life free from this pain." I'll tell you with certainty, when you have experienced so much pain that it has dragged every ounce of strength out of you, and beaten your emotions, and destroyed your life, then you will realize that the ONLY thing worth ANYTHING is God's will and God's Kingdom. This life holds nothing of value, nothing worth seeking. You will desert all notions of finding any place of rest here, and you will hang on to the ONLY thing there is to hang on to: God's rope, attached to that anchor. You will eventually get to the point where you truly mean it: I don't care about this life and this body. All I care about is God—honestly. When you truly don't care any more, and you find that place of peace on the OTHER side of the wall of pain, you won't trade that for the world. These other people have peace on THIS side of the wall. They know nothing of the pain, and they walk around life so carefree. Katcus, they don't have what we have, and they never will until they, too, sink into the mire of agony and struggle out to the other side of the wall. On the other side of the wall is true freedom and true peace. And if they never get to that point, they will spend all of their lives in shallow waters. Don't envy them. 2 Corinthians 4.17-18: "Therefore we do not lose heart. Though outwardly we are wasting away, yet inwardly we are being renewed day by day. For our light and momentary troubles (think of how in the WORLD Paul could describe his troubles as "light and momentary". HA! Read 2 Cor. 1.8-9; 4.8-12; 6.4-11) are achieving for us an eternal glory that far outweighs them all. So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen. for what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal."

So why, still, do those people have it easier? They don't. Their grass is not greener. Some of us get pain, some get compromise, some get success and all the problems that come with it, some get temptation. No matter what lot is dealt to each of us, we all have to deal with it and go deeper. Your pain FORCES you there; their issues may never, and they may NEVER find what you have.

How do I know all this? Because I've been there, and now I'm on the other side of the wall. The peace on THIS side of complexity and pain is worthless. The peace on the OTHER side of complexity and pain is priceless. My soul finds rest in God alone—the God of my salvation.

Do you know the old hymns?

Though the angry surges roll, on my tempest driven soul
I am peaceful for I know, wildly tho the winds my blow,
I've an anchor safe and sure that can evermore endure.
And it holds, my anchor holds! Blow your wildest, then, O gale,
on my bark so small and frail: by his grace I shall not fail,
For my anchor holds, my anchor holds!

I continue to pray for you, but the pain may not go away. That's not the point. It's a hard truth.

[MolyRoly]

Oh, that I could find that peace! I love your words. They are so wise. And I know they are true. I want to be able to trust God more than anything. I don't want to fail this test. I want to be like Abraham. Thank you for the many reminders of that deeper faith and what it's all about. I need people to remind me of that because the pain is so blinding. That's all I can see. It's hard to fix my eyes on the eternal when I can't focus but that is my new goal. You have given me a lot to think about. You have truly blessed me today.

[MolyRoly]

Today I'm finding comfort in Romans 12:12 "Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer." My pain has eased a bit. Praise God.

[jimwalton]

So sorry about your suffering. It's a great verse you chose, because hope, patience, and prayer are our richest source of consolation and strength. Our discouragement is mostly rooted in our expectations. If we expect that God is going to change our circumstances, we get discouraged, and then bitter when that doesn't happen. But this verse makes no illusions about deliverance. It says we must be patient through them. And "be faithful in prayer." I dare offer that the best prayer is not for deliverance (though we never stop praying for that, do we?), but for strength for the day, and to somehow find joy, not in our circumstances, but in our hope that lies beyond and above all the suffering.

What is the point, you may ask, if life holds nothing but suffering for us? For that I'll take you to 1 Peter 1.3-9. Again, the text mentions nothing of deliverance. The suffering is ever-present, but he explains so much to us about it. What's the point if the suffering never goes away? He talks about a quality of SOUL, not a quality of LIFE. Again, remember that we have what those who don't suffer will NEVER have: a quality of SOUL. See Hebrews 11.38: "The world was not worthy of them." Your faith (Heb. 11, and here in 1 Peter 3.5) is what shields you. Your faith that tells you God exists, Jesus rose from the dead and that makes it all SO true and SO real, that knows that life is about God's Kingdom and God's will, and that's all that matters. Your faith transforms your mind and shields you from the disaster of soul. Fear not what destroys your body, but what destroys your SOUL. Our mental attitude and perspective -- what we SEE, is what shield us (again, 2 Cor. 4.16-18: "...we fix our eyes on..."). In 1 Peter 1.5, the final deliverance -- the only deliverance spoken of in the text about suffering -- is still future. "In this you greatly rejoice": we have to keep our heads there, rather than fall into despair. "We are hard pressed on every side, but not crushed; perplexed, but not in despair; persecuted, but not abandoned; struck down, but not destroyed" (2 Cor. 4.8-9). WHERE IS THE NOTION OF DELIVERANCE? "We who are alive are always being given over to death for Jesus' sake, so that his life may be reveled in our mortal body." Doesn't it just stick it to Satan when suffering enriches our lives rather than ruins them? How is it possible?

1 Peter 1.7. The suffering has come to prove that the faith is real. What's the point if life holds nothing but suffering?
We become strong through forced perseverance, and we have a fortitude no one else knows anything about
Who would hang on to faith through this awful experience we call life? Only those who know its real truth. All others fall away like fools.
It disciplines us to separate what life is truly about and what is expendable. I will gladly give what I cannot keep to gain what I cannot lose.
It develops our character. All the suffering certainly helps us not to be distracted by the fluff of life.
Nothing like suffering teaches us that the all-surpassing power is from God and not from us.

1 Peter 1.8: The point is that even though we don't SEE anything to hang on to, our faith hangs on and shields us, and we spurn Satan by showing our love for God, in Job-like fashion.

Again, many people speak of deliverance, as Job's friends did to him. They tell the lie, "If God really loved you, he wouldn't treat you like this," or "If you were really a good Christian and person of faith, you would pray and God would deliver you." And we must admit that on occasion God does such things, but most of the time, no. And why do YOU have to be the one to suffer, the one God won't deliver? It's not the place of the pot to tell the potter "Why have you made me like this?". Remember what I said the other day, and above: if you have a quality of SOUL, you are far better off than those who have riches and comfort and an easy life. It's a hard, hard truth, but it's true. We have to hang on to it.

[MolyRoly]

Thank you , Jim. You have given more important stuff to study and absorb. No one else is telling me these things. But I need to hear it. I have looked up all the verses. It IS a hard hard truth. I don't want life to be hard. I liked my easy life. But I am seeing what God really wants for me. If only I could think through the pain. In the most painful times it is crazy—I feel like I am in one of those horror movies where someone is going crazy. That's how much pain there is. I don't want to be there. I feel the absence of God and a desperation that is indescribable. In those times it is very hard to start doing any "God" stuff and thinking how wonderful it is to be building my faith. All I can do is call out His name. Sometimes not in so friendly a tone. The last 24 hours the pain has eased a bit ((I thank the Lord). I had e-mailed many people to pray. I'm back to a normal pain level. Thank you for your out pouring of love and care. It is getting me through these most desperate times. What would I do without God's servants like you?

[jimwalton]

Sometimes all there is to do is cry and pray, "God I need you. God I need you. God I need you." The emptiness and agony get so severe we can't muster anything else. And so I pray it, over and over, along with, "God, reveal yourself to me in this. God I need you. If your power is made perfect in my weakness, then let me be weak. Your will be done. God, I need you so badly."

Here's another hard passage: Philippians 3.10: "I want to know Christ and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of sharing in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death..."

The fellowship of suffering (not a sorority you ever wanted to belong to) is one of the best ways to know Christ. Resurrection can only come via death. Unless a seed falls to the ground and dies it cannot bear fruit. The way to Christ is through the cross of suffering. Who wants that? Those who want Christ. It is THE way. If anyone wants to follow me, he must deny himself and take up a cross. The power that comes to us is not avoidance of the suffering, but of life through it. Jesus did not avoid the suffering. After I have denied myself and emptied myself, realizing that I am just a shell with dead bones and a dead soul inside, I come to the place of complete and utter dependence on God. I have nothing to offer; I have no worthiness; I can do nothing. I am at his mercy. I am dead, lost, and empty. My heart cries out to God. All initiative, all action – everything – is his. I want to know the power of his resurrection that creates life inside me where there is none. Light and life born in an empty place, just like Genesis 1.2-3, and just like in Mary's womb.

We bond with Jesus through a shared experience. In your sanctified imagination picture your body in its pain joining with Jesus on the cross. In your mind's eye see the two of your sharing the cup of suffering. It may not give you strength, but it's true that your suffering bonds you together, and his life can flow into you the same way. At least sense his presence with you. I know it's just a mental picture, but it can help.

As you know, in the Garden of Gethsemane, Jesus was under such a load of unbearable stress that he sweated drops of blood. When you pray, again, in your mind picture him next to you, sharing your suffering.

May his presence feed your spirit.