Board index ‹ The Problem of Evil and Suffering

[Newbie]

I think the existence of evil proves there isn't a God. After all, if he was all-powerful, he could stop it, and if he was good, he would stop it. Either way, God loses, and he doesn't exist. But if he does, he's not much of a God.

[jimwalton]

Wow. That’s a pretty head-on statement. You want to know if evil disproves that there’s a God. I’ll be glad to speak to that. Let’s talk, and feel free to respond.

Here’s the argument you’re suggesting:
God exists
God is believed to be omnipotent (all-powerful)
God is believed to be perfectly good
But evil exists, so we have a problem here.

OK, but these statements don’t automatically create a contradiction. They may even be perfectly compatible. We won’t know until we go deeper. What you seem to be saying is that the very existence of evil automatically contradicts any belief in the existence of God. So you need to give me some evidence of that. I’m not sure you can, but I’m willing to listen.

Let's start here: we know that good is opposed to evil, but what you’re saying is that the REAL good always works to eliminate evil as far as it can. I agree with that, but that still doesn’t prove your point. You need to give me something to work with.

I’ll start. When we say God is all-powerful, we are not claiming that there are no limits to what he can do. We ARE claiming that there are no non-logical limits to what He can do. We would say that there are things God can’t do because they're not logical, such as, "Can God make a rock so big God can't lift it?", or, "Can God make a circle that is square? These aren’t logical things, so we would never claim that God can do that. Therefore God being all-powerful doesn't mean he can do everything, even illogical things.

I’m also not sure I’d agree with the idea that REAL good always works to eliminate evil as far as it can. For instance, we say that pain is evil, but wait a minute: when a doctor performs surgery, he causes pain, but he doesn’t stop being good because he did that. As a matter of fact, the pain was part of the good he did, and you can’t get rid of that “evil” without getting rid of the “good” too. Right? So "good" and "pain" aren't automatically contradictory.

Then, are you saying it’s only evil if it doesn’t produce a good that outweighs the evil? Well, but you’ve already admitted then that the existence of pain is not a contradiction to a person being good and allowing it.

OK, then. Maybe God is perfectly good only if he tries to eliminate every evil that he can without also eliminating a greater good? Bingo. God can be all-powerful and good, and certain evil can still possibly exist. That’s what I’m saying, for sure. Sometimes suffering brings out the best in people, and they display nobility and courage in the face of it. Sometimes people get stronger by it, or learn important lessons. It’s very possible that good and evil together can be a good state of affairs. And that means that God can be all-powerful, and permit as much evil as he please without forfeiting his claim to being good, as long as for every evil he permits there is the possibility of a great good—as long as there is a balance of good over evil in the universe as a whole. That’s exactly what the Bible teaches.

If you think there’s a contradiction, you need to share your evidence. You have to show that if there is any evil, it’s unjustified evil, and that evil is always unjustified. But even if it’s remotely possible that evil is justifiable for a possible greater good, than there is no contradiction with God being good and evil existing. Is this getting too tangled, or is it clear? You’ll have to let me know.

All I’m saying is that it’s possible that God is perfectly good, and that God allows evil to exist in the world although he could prevent it. The point is there may be reasons he doesn’t prevent it, but that doesn’t make Him not good.

But what about those evils that are so severe, protracted, and involuntary that they are deep evil and deep pain? Well, what you have to prove is that even those never do and could never possibly have ANY redeeming value if your point is true. I would say that’s difficult, if not impossible, to prove, and that what the Bible teaches is still possible, and certainly not a contradiction.