Board index ‹ The Problem of Evil and Suffering

[Kermit the Frog]

If salvation is based on faith, then why does god allow some people to lead a harsher life, causing less receptiveness to faith?

Basically title.

The assumptions that I'm making are, given two people who have basically the same personality, thus controlling for the case that supposed they have the same degrees of enjoyment in life, they would be equally likely to believe in christianity.

It's possible that god creates different circumstances for these two people, one leading a good successful life, and one leading a life of poverty and sickness. They are not equally likely to attribute good fate to god, and thus have different degrees in faith (one might be more bitter and blame God). These people then have different chances at salvation, purely by the circumstances that god put them in.

Isn't this implying that some souls have inherently more worth to god than others that they be placed in circumstances where they are more likely to have salvation?

[jimwalton]

I guess my first question is wondering why you think God causes harshness in life? The Bible says that life happens, that the world doesn't work according to the retribution principles (good people get rewarded in this life, bad people get punished), that God lets it rain on the good and the bad, and that our circumstances are not the way to evaluate what God is doing. So let's talk about that question first.

> It's possible that god creates different circumstances for these two people ... These people then have different chances at salvation, purely by the circumstances that god put them in.

Here we are at the discussion. What makes you think God creates our circumstances?

> Isn't this implying that some souls have inherently more worth to god than others that they be placed in circumstances where they are more likely to have salvation?

Therefore your implication doesn't carry, because your premise is faulty. If God doesn't create our circumstances (but nature and nurture do), then it doesn't follow that some souls have inherently more worth to God than others. So let's talk about it.

[Kermit the Frog]

My implications still carry, in that since God is all powerful, and suppose god wants everyone to have the fair chance at considering faith towards salvation, then even by neglegiance of people's varying circumstances not explicitly created by god, god has allowed inequality to arise. To not actively work to address this inequality of circumstances implies that God doesn't care about equal chance at salvation for everyone.
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We humans, despite our impulses and nature, still try to adjust for this inequality in our society with welfare, social safety net, and affirmative action. Why shouldn't God also do the same?

[jimwalton]

You seem to think that inequality interferes with salvation. I'd want to know what makes you think that. Historically, Christianity was very successful among the slaves, the poor, and the oppressed people of the world like prisoners, the sick, and the lonely. Though God didn't cause their harshness in life, His message of salvation definitely reaches out to them. But we also know that the rich, the intellectual, and the powerful also turn to God. So what makes you think that "allowing inequality to arise" is an obstacle? Diversity is a strength, not a weakness.

> To not actively work to address this inequality of circumstances implies that God doesn't care about equal chance at salvation for everyone.

How so? I'll need you to explain this. The intent was never identicality or us being clones. Uniqueness is a great thing, diversity is a value, and therefore inequality is necessary. That doesn't mean we don't all have a valid opportunity for salvation.

Yes, we try to adjust for inequality in our society, and the Bible also tells us to do that. The Bible probably says more about taking care of the poor and the underdogs than any other topic. So I would say God does do the same (Micah 6.8; Mt. 25.31-43; Gal. 2.10, and so many other texts). You'll have to explain why inequality (economics, abilities, intellect, social status, power) is an obstacle to salvation, and why you think God isn't committed to helping people in oppressive circumstances. So let's talk about it.