Board index ‹ Specific Bible verses, texts, and passages ‹ 2 Kings

[Dynamo]

I believe the Bible was written by a very intelligent set of men who, thousands of years later, still have people believing in their lies. There have been similarly effective holy books written in different parts of the world for as long as written language has existed. The Bible is one among very many. It even has numerous ridiculous logical fallacies and inconsistencies, such as this story, where the Creator of the Universe possesses a pair of she-bears to murder children for making fun of a prophet (What?) that texts from other religions avoid. The Bible and other religious texts are one of the last places I'd look if I wanted a reliable source. I do not and will never believe that the Creator of the Universe possessed a pair of she-bears to murder children for making fun of a prophet (2 Kings 2:24).

[jimwalton]

You just have to read the Bible more than one inch deep. It was written by intelligent men, and has to be read by intelligent readers.

Israel at the time is in a moral and spiritual cesspool, with one of the worst kings ever (Ahab) on the throne, and his horrible wife, Jezebel. They're into child sacrifice and the murder of innocent people. Elijah confronted them, and they tried to kill him. The Lord wouldn't sit around quietly and let his people be flushed down the toilet. Elijah anointed a new king (even while Ahab was alive), and recruited a replacement for himself, Elisha. Finally Ahab is killed in battle, Jezebel dies, and the country has a chance to emerge from the spiritual sewer.

Ahaziah succeeds Ahab, and he's evil to the core. Elijah confront him, and he too dies. Any judge, speaking of God, who ignores evil isn't much of a judge. Elijah is taken away, and Elisha is his successor. Within the time of a about a week, Elisha heads to Bethel, the house of God, where Abraham had met with the Lord and where Jacob had his vision of the stairway to heaven. He is minding his own business, or should I say the business of the Lord, when he is accosted by a group (unknown number; "42" is a generic term in their culture for a large group) of teens who, as members of covenant families ought to have been taught that cursing God's servants (prophets) was tantamount to cursing God, an action punishable by death. But remember, the country was depraved.

They mocked the prophet for his baldness. In those days, long hair was the mark of a true prophet. Also, the ritual cutting of hair is prohibited by the law. Now, Elisha was naturally bald, apparently, but the taunt was unmistakable: you're a fake and a fraud, and YHWH is both impotent and false. Everything about your God is illicit.

Elisha turned and rebuked their blasphemy, calling down a curse on them in the name of the Lord. Was YHWH real? Was Elisha his true prophet? Did YHWH take any actions to preserve his people, keep them on the right path, and judge rebels? Would God do nothing to maintain the right, and just watch the country go down the toilet?

You'll notice that Elisha doesn't specify the curse. He rebukes them for their blasphemy. God is the one who takes the action. For all we know, all Elisha said is, "May God curse you for your blasphemy," and then to his surprise and that of the teens, 2 bears attack them.

Now, let's look at that attack a little closer. First of all, you know how bears attack. You've seen it on youtube. They're not fast like leopards. Let's be realistic—if two bears attack 10 kids, the 10 kids are going to run in 10 different directions; 42 kids are going to run in 42 different directions. Two bears are only going to get two kids. The rest are going to be GONE with the wind. And the text doesn't say any of them are killed. So it's impractical to assume that all of them were mauled. The boys would run for their lives. But the effect would be the same: the Lord will not allow his name to be blasphemed without impunity. Now, I may have also already said that ravaging wild beasts were often seen as punishment sent from God. The point is clearly made even if only two boys are injured.

Now let's talk about blasphemy a little bit:

1. If God is not real, blasphemy is merely insulting the God I have manufactured in my mind, and you have offended me. But if God is real, blasphemy is profaning the creator and sustainer of the universe—whole different offense.

2. Blasphemy is not just "making fun of a prophet," but it's cursing him and assuming to oneself his rights. It's not just an act of grave offense, but of deep evil.

3. In the Bible, as opposed to Islam, people don't judge others for the "crime" of blasphemy; God does. Humans are not to go around killing other people for blasphemy. God is the one who defends the honor of his own name. It doesn't make God a terrorist any more than it made your parents or teachers into terrorists when they demanded that your respect their authority. Authority, respect, and honor all have their place, especially when the person deserves it.

[Game Time]

If God goes around punishing people for blasphemy, then why are the only miracles nowadays ones where Jesus' face appears on toast and shit? If God sends bears to maul a bunch of teenagers for mocking a bald guy, why doesn't God do anything like that on the countless atheists in the world directly mocking God, not just his prophets?

[jimwalton]

Thanks for the question. It was just a one-shot—a particular time in history when God was trying to preserve his people against a particular onslaught of godless thought, and for all we know it (the times of Elijah and Elisha) was a make-it-or-break-it turning point in the history of the nation, so God chose to act decisively in this particular way.

> why are the only miracles nowadays ones where Jesus' face appears on toast

Those are miracles. Those are ridiculously silly false observations of ridiculously misguided people.

> why doesn't God do anything like that on the countless atheists in the world directly mocking God, not just his prophets

There are particular periods in history where God acted decisively like this. The two biggest are when Jesus was around, and the Exodus/Moses story. A distant third is the time of Elijah/Elisha. All other periods of history pale in comparison to those. God acts much more subtly most of the time, often invisibly. Most of the time God acts through the normal actions of normal people, providing for the poor, feeding the hungry, visiting people in prisons, caring for the elderly, and working for justice in the world, among other things. Our era is obviously not one where God is jumping out of every corner doing spectacular things day after day, but few eras are.

You'll notice when God instituted capital punishment, for instance, it was "You humans are supposed to take care of this," not "I'll kill the offenders myself." in Matt. 25 (and MANY other places) we find out we're the ones who are supposed to feed the hungry with all the resources at our disposal. As far as mauling atheists, God's not going to act in that way. Instead, people like me engage people in dialogue to make sure they understand properly what the Bible actually says and teaches rather than a distorted, superficial version of it. Hence a conversation like this one.