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[Jambalaya]

The more and more I read the Bible the more and more I start seeing that it points to a flat earth.

[jimwalton]

I'm intrigued by this comment, and would like to talk about it more. Where does the Bible teach a flat Earth? I know the ancients perceived of the world as flat, but that doesn't mean they taught it was flat (there's a difference). When I look at a water tower, it can look like a rectangle. When I look at the sky it can look like a dome over my head. Where does the Bible teach the Earth is flat?

For instance, Isaiah 40.22: "He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in." Um, doesn't claim the Earth is flat. The chapter is addressing the question: Does the Israelite exile prove that God is beaten and He has turned tail and run, deserting His people, or is He still the Lord of history? The author uses creation vocabulary and imagery to assure us God is sovereign. It’s wrong to try to read science into the text. He’s not saying the Earth is flat any more than he is saying people are insects or the atmosphere is a tent. In other words, the text is not making a scientific statement, but rather a theological one: God created the material world; He is not bound by it, and He is still sovereign over it.

So, ya gotta help me here. Where are you reading this upsetting or disturbing idea that the Bible "points to a flat earth"? Let's talk about it.

[Jambalaya]

Wel let me ask you? Is a circle and a ball shape the same or different? Or is it flat? Once it becomes not flat - is it still a circle? Or just circular because you can draw a circle around or?

[jimwalton]

And so we come to the issues of language. Looking at a 3-dimensional ball and at a 2-dimensional circle (from the broad side), both look the same. They're both circular. It's easy to grant that the ancients perceived the Earth as a flat disc. Everything we have from ancient records tells us that. But the point of the text is not to define scientific cosmogony, but instead to teach us about God's sovereignty over the material world.

The term Isaiah 40.22 uses is חוּג (choog). It means "circle." But His point is that God sits enthroned. He's not making a statement about the science of the globe. What He is saying is that God is in a place of authority and power. That's where the authority of the text lies.

[Jambalaya]

You are correct - God is in the place of authority and power. So then if question is - what would be the problem with believing in a flat earth. Does it diminish the power that God has?

[jimwalton]

A flat earth doesn't diminish God's power. It's impossible to diminish God's power. With regard to our perceptions, we can't diminish God's power by our inadequate thoughts, we can only be guilty of thinking wrongly and falsely. The problem with believing in a flat earth is that it doesn't conform to reality. The earth is genuinely spherical, and we always do everything possible to subscribe to what is true (conforms to reality). We follow the evidence where it leads, and the truth matters.

[Jambalaya]

Can you prove to me without NASAs pics that the earth is a globe? You trust the pics 100% completely?

[jimwalton]

1. When a ship sails toward the horizon, it doesn't just get smaller. Instead, it disappears from low to high, hull to mast, with the mast being the last part to disappear. It shows that the Earth is curving not just on a flat disk, but in every direction away from the object.

2. Astronomy. Different constellations are visible at different latitudes. The Big Dipper is visible only in the north; the Southern Cross only in the south. If the Earth were a disk as opposed to a sphere, this would not be the case. If the Earth were flat, all constellations would be visible to all just the same.

3. Lunar eclipses. Since a lunar eclipse can be viewed from many points of observation on the Earth, and since the moon is in different latitudinal positions in different eclipses, it's possible to see that the shadow on the moon is consistent no matter what one's viewing position is, proving that the Earth is a sphere, not a disk.

4. Climb a tree or a mountain. If the Earth were flat, visibility would be just as far no matter what one's vantage point. If the Earth is spherical, however, one could see further with a higher view, which is the case. Even your own weather balloon with a camera attached will show you this phenomenon.

5. A simple airplane flight around the world will suffice. NASA pics are not necessary. I have flown to Europe and Asia. The Earth is the same shape no matter what. If the Earth were flat, anyone in an airplane with enough distance could discover its disk shape. That, however, is not the case. It's always a sphere.

6. Shadows. On the day of summer solstice (about a week ago), at high noon, a place directly under the sun casts no shadows. A place relatively close (a couple of hundred miles) does. If the Earth were flat, both places would cast no shadow because the sun's position would be the same relative to the ground. But since they are not the same, it shows that the ground is falling away in an arc, showing the Earth to be a sphere and not a disk.