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[Prove I'm a German]

Even if I deny God and go to extreme measures to prove his non-existence.

Blaspheme his name. Call him a murderer, tyrant and evil God. Just to name a few. things. Why do I treat God so badly? I would never speak to a human the way I have spoken to and about God ..

[jimwalton]

You'll get different answers to this question. It's not that the Bible is unclear, but instead that we are unable to read people's hearts and souls accurately. People can be good fakers, and so what for us is confusing, for God it's easy to tell who's really saved and who is not.

I personally believe that one cannot lose his or her salvation, but there are always conditions to such a statement. Sometimes it seems that people were Christians and have lost it, but how are we to know if they ever were? My problem with the whole possibility of losing one's salvation means that, when it comes right down to it, my salvation is up to me: my behavior, my persistence, my commitment. To me that is contrary to Scripture that says salvation is the work of Christ. If salvation is the work of Christ, then it doesn't depend on my behavior. There are plenty of verses that indicate that God holds me in his hand and won't let go. There are also plenty that say only those who endure to the end will be saved. There are those who would say that those who don't endure to the end were never saved in the first place. It's sticky because we can't read hearts and souls.

There's also a text in 2 Timothy 2.11-13 that is real interesting: "Here is a trustworthy saying: If we died with him, we will also live with him; if we endure, we will also reign with him. If we disown him, he will also disown us; if we are faithless, he remains faithful, for he cannot disown himself."

It sounds like you can't lose your salvation, but possibly you can repudiate it. In other words, if you turn away from God for a period of time, He'll hang on to you until you come back. But if you repudiate your faith and spit in His face, so to speak, He won't drag you to heaven against your will.

> I would never speak to a human the way I have spoken to and about God ..

There's no real problem in being honest with God. I have done the same, many times. God knows our hearts, and doesn't hold honesty against us.

There's really no answer to the question except that each one of us should make sure it's not an issue. Stay deep in fellowship with the Lord and walk in Christ, and it will never be of concern to you.

[Powerless Prodigal]

The idea that I could potentially repudiate my salvation terrifies me. Sure, I could be deep in fellowship with him today, but what if I walk away after some time in the future? That is an absolutely terrifying thought to me. So then the answer, as you said, is to stay in deep fellowship with the Lord. But it seems that I would now be doing so more out of a posture of fear, seeking him because I’m desperately afraid of walking away and losing the greatest Treasure of all, or perhaps afraid of simply suffering the consequences of the judgement of a just God. How can I move from a posture of fear in seeking God to a posture of love, trust, and unshakable commitment?

[jimwalton]

Thanks for jumping into the conversation. It's really a difficult topic because we can't read hearts and souls. I've heard plenty of Christians say that a real Christian would never turn again God. It's just not something a real Christian would do. On the other hand, we know how crazy life can be, and things happen that change us.

As I mentioned, I think the Bible teaches solidly that those who walk away from God are still in his hand. God has a long leash, and He is faithful, not fickle. We never need to be afraid.

I think that, in the realities of life, love has a strong place in the way we make decisions, but fear also has its place. It's fear that keeps me from doing stupid and dangerous things, like crossing a busy street with my eyes closed or cliff diving for the fun of it (such things are really only for professionals). Fear has its place in life. I shouldn't live by fear, but I should think that a life properly lived has no fear in it. Jesus would never had said anything about hell if a healthy amount of fear weren't worth thinking about.

In response to what you said, I fully believe that our relationship with God should be primarily and mostly a relationship of love, but also seasoned with a healthy amount of fear. Since you describe Christianity as "the greatest Treasure of all," I would assume from that phrase that you recognize the benefits of Jesus and admit to your love for Him, and possibly aren't doing so "more out of a posture of fear."

> "How can I move from a posture of fear in seeking God to a posture of love, trust, and unshakable commitment?"

I think the answer to this lies in two emphases.

1. Treat your relationship with God as a relationship. We aren't here by obligation, by birth, or by coercion, but because we chose it. In a sense it's like marriage rather than siblings. I couldn't choose my siblings, but I did get to choose my wife. Since I chose God, I can treat my relationship with Him from a position of love, not of fear.

2. Focus on the positive. God offers so much to us. Ephesians says things like we have been blessed with every spiritual blessing. Romans says we are more than conquerors. 1 Corinthians says that God always provides a way of escape from temptation. 1 Peter talks about all the hope we have. 1 John lets us know how loved we are. There's nothing to fear in all of this. God loves us, He wants us, He wants to bless us, He wants to conform us to the image of His Son (Rom. 8.29), and so much more. With so much positive, and so much to gain, (and when we are in Christ, there is so little to fear), I find that a posture of love, trust, and unshakeable commitment is more the default position than feelings of fear.

You said you're afraid of walking away and losing your treasure. What is pushing you to walk away?