Board index ‹ Salvation

[Newbie]

It's my understanding that good people and religious people will go to heaven, right? That's what everyone seems to believe, and what everyone believes is right.

[jimwalton]

Nope. That's not the case at all. As far as heaven is concerned, the Bible doesn't make any distinction between good and bad people, or between religious and non-religious. The Bible only makes a separation between those who have the nature of sin and those who have the nature of Jesus. It uses the words "light" and "dark," but it's talking about nature, not behavior. Does that make sense?

[Newbie]

But what if a person doesn't believe in "religion" but is still a good person?! What happens to them?

[jimwalton]

Suppose a special sporting event is coming to your town, but for some reason only women will be allowed in (just for the sake of the analogy). OK, so you show up at the gate, because you want to see the game. They say, "It's only for people who are by nature women." You protest: "But I'm a great guy." So what? The guy's going to say to you, "Buddy, it's Ladies' Night. Beat it." What does it matter if you're good or bad if you only get in if you have a female nature. Dumb example, but I'm trying to explain. It's what NATURE you have—the nature of JESUS—not how good you are.

[Newbie]

It doesn't make sense to me. It feels like God is saying, "Only the people who ADORE ME can come in." Isn't that just a little bit narcissistic? What if people do good, becasue they are good people. They don't do it to gain points with Jesus. They do it because they love to help.

[jimwalton]

It's not narcissistic at all. The truth is: God can't tolerate sin, because sin is a rejection of God. So it makes sense that the only inhabitants of heaven can be those who have no sin. OK, so we know the angels can be there, and Jesus can be there. But what about people? Jesus says, "You would only want to go to heaven to spend eternity with me if it's because you love me. I love you all, but if you love me too, then let's work this out. Anybody who loves me and wants to go to heaven, let me know, and I will do a miracle in you and change your nature—from sin nature to the nature of myself. You can't change your own nature, but I can change you. Why would you bother, though, if you don't love me? If you don't love me you don't want to spend eternity with me anyway. So I'll change whoever wants it. Then when we're in heaven, there won't be the issue of sin. It'll just be the angels, Jesus, and people who have the nature of Jesus." Perfect. Did you notice that being religious and being good aren't factors in the equation? One of the conditions for visiting a foreign country is that you have a passport. Someone may say, "But I won't do anything wrong or bad." Well, that doesn't matter. You can't come there unless you have your name written in that book! And the only thing that matters for entrance to heaven is your NATURE.

[Newbie]

So, let's put it this way, then. You have a son, and you love him with all your soul, but he is a naughty boy—a rebel, you may say. So, if you can save him, would YOU??? Or would u stop loving him? Also, if God wants only angels up there, why bother with the world? He already has angels.

[jimwalton]

Oh, God doesn't want just angels up there. He wants people. He wants more children, not just his only begotten Son, but many more children. As many as will come to live with him.

[Newbie]

OK, so, if he wants the children, then he has to power to bring them to himself. He's God. Why all the drama??!

[jimwalton]

OK, so you have a boy, and you love him with all your heart and soul. But he is a naughty boy. You love him anyway, because he's your son. He is on the 5th floor of a building, and it catches fire. There's no way you can get to him, because the stairs are burned up. No ladder is there. You are on the street below, pleading with him to jump. You love him, you will catch him. "JUMP!" He must choose it. At that point you can't make him jump. You can see that at this point it doesn't even matter if he's a good boy or a bad boy. And it doesn't matter how much you love him. What matters at that point is how much he loves and trusts you, and if he's going to rebel against you and refuse to jump, there is nothing more you can do. You haven't stopped loving him, but the choice to love back and to trust has to be his.

Ultimately you WILL be the one who saves him—you will catch him. He can't be saved apart from you. But he has to make the decision to come in your direction. And, for the sake of the analogy, you can see that in all this it doesn't matter whether he is good or bad, religious or not.

I know the analogy doesn't work if you take it too far, but I think you understand what I'm getting at.