Board index ‹ Salvation

[Way Better]

Defined by the Bible of course, what saves a person?

And what keeps them saved, and then how do they absolutely know they are saved?

Thank you, the Lord Jesus Christ bless you all.

[jimwalton]

I recently surveyed the Gospels to make a list, from the mouth of Jesus, as to how you get into Heaven. What is it that gets you there? Jesus gave many answers, but a cluster of them rose to the top via repetition:

• If you want to be part of the kingdom of God, you must repent and believe. Sin is presented as the antithesis of Jesus and it must be repented from.
• That Jesus Himself is the access point, and Jesus is calling sinners to himself
• That one must be born of the Spirit
• He is looking for faith.
• Obey the Law and keep the commandments (here's where the two commands are applicable).
• Do God's will
• Put the words of Jesus into practice
• Align yourself with Jesus, identify with him, and follow Him
• Love God
• Love Jesus
• Lose your life (deny self) for Jesus's sake
• good works ("love of neighbor")
• Humility
• Live by the truth; come into the light, both of which are Jesus Himself
• Drink the "living water" that Jesus gives

I would say the summary statement is: Repent of your sins and align yourself with Jesus. Come to Jesus, believe in Jesus and follow him—put his words into practice, love him, allegiance. Follow him, identify with him, and learn from him.

> And what keeps them saved

The Spirit of God keeps you saved as you hold the course.

> how do they absolutely know they are saved?

It's a promise from God. If you do what Jesus asks for salvation, you can absolutely know you are saved. You will also be aware of the Holy Spirit within you, and that's an indicator also.

[MisterMister]

I haven't seen many people mention repentance when they talk about this subject. I think this is one of the more important aspects that we need to consider daily. As Jesus stated in Mark 1:15 it appears that only faith and repentance are necessary for salvation. A lot more comes into play once you are saved but I would suggest that the bare minimum are faith and repentance.

[Happy Hippy]

We are not called to obey the law. Not with the new covenant. Jesus fulfilled the law because man couldn't. The only reason God gave Moses the law was to point out our sin. Not to judge us. Man can not fulfill the law due to his sin nature and the flesh. Therefore, Jesus in His glorious perfection fulfilled the law.

[jimwalton]

Yes Jesus fulfilled the Law. No debate there. But where I got this from was the words of Jesus Himself: Mt. 5.19-20; 12.50; 19.18-19; Mk. 7.8; 10.3, 19; Lk. 10.28; 16.29-31; 18.18-30; 19.1-10. But I will also add that following the Law and commandments is often, if not always, explained as following Jesus. Righteousness in Judaism was connected to living in relationship with God as defined in the Torah. Jesus seems to be pushing the definition into relationship with Himself as God and following him in both allegiance and obedience.

[Bacon]

Basically, be a good Jew.

Not one item in that list has any necessary connection to being Christian. Not even the Death and Resurrection of Christ, or His being Messiah, get a mention.

Maybe everything should be dropped from the NT except the Gospels (except for His Death and what follows).

[jimwalton]

> Basically, be a good Jew.

Not really. Some repeating points are "Jesus is the access point," Love Jesus, put the words of Jesus into action, and "Align yourself with Jesus, identify with him, and follow Him." All of those are verboten for a Jew.

> Not one item in that list has any necessary connection to being Christian.

Yeah, several of them are. All of the ones about aligning with Christ are distinctly Christian.

> Not even the Death and Resurrection of Christ

Correct about this. Yep. Before His death and resurrection, Jesus didn't teach that subscribing to His death and resurrection were part of the package. That's where we need Paul's writing as "Volume 2".

> or His being Messiah

Well, that's a bit of a technicality. Jesus is the access point, and one must believe in Him (repent and believe: (Mt. 21.32; Lk. 5.3213; 13.3-5; 15.1-31; 24.47) and drink the living water that Jesus gives ((Jn. 4.13-14; 7.38, which is a text about His messiahship). Also, living by the truth and coming into the light (Jn. 3.21; 4.23-24; 5.33; 8.32; 9.5; 12.35-36, 46; 15.26; 16.13; 18.37), both of which are Jesus Himself, pertain to His being the Messiah.

So your comments, while they superficially look like they are correct, missed quite a bit of the truth of the matter.

[Captain Gold]

What do you do with the problematic Galatians 3:23-25 with regards to your position?

[jimwalton]

It's not problematic. In 3.23, Paul is talking about the boundaries and rules that People were limited by before the new covenant. Before Jesus came, the law had to assume the temporary role of a controlling factor, as best as it could. In the same sense as in the book "The Lord of the Flies," the Law was an authority to both intimidate and guide so as to maintain some semblance of control. It was as if the only way to control people without the possibility of control through the Spirit in the heart, was to lock them up in jail so they could not misbehave. It worked to the extent that fear and intimidation can prevent bad behavior. But it could not make people good; it could not justify. It can only forcefully control. It does nothing for the heart.

V. 24: In the movie "The Village," M. Night Shyamalan shows us this principle. Fear and control can lead to a somewhat just and happy society under the illusion of freedom. Society can function adequately and admirably under this kind of fear. Ultimately, though, it is not a lasting or ideal solution, and in truth it’s just another form of bondage.

v: 25: We have to be controlled by something, because the Bible says we are unable to control ourselves. By our very nature, we lack control. Freedom, as one pastor rightfully said, is not a lack of all controls, but the ability to choose what will control us. Often we let our notions of “for the good of society,” what is right and wrong by our perceptions, or fear and authority control us. We live by our lists of rules and standards, and don’t even realize we are enslaved by them. The Bible says that faith in Jesus Christ sets us truly free. It is true because then the controls do not come from outside, but they come from inside us—from the heart—from the foundation of love. Justification by faith teaches us the freedom of love, not the fear of authority.

Where's the problem here with my position?

[Captain Gold]

The problem is it states we are no longer under the schoolmaster (the law!) If I understand correctly, you believe that Christians must still follow the law(?). If I have misunderstood your position on this, my sincere apologies.

Can you provide BCV to support your statement "the Bible says we are unable to control ourselves" please? Somehow I don't think that being free in Christ can be simultaneous with having to keep the law.