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[RLunde]

You need to talk to me about God "being in control". I am reading this (stupid) book about God's sovereignty in suffering - stating, God makes everything happen-- he ordains it all- but at the same time that doesn't contradict that we have free will and choice. It's quite irritating. What are your thoughts about God not being in control? Thanks. I hate this topic to be quite honest. I'd much rather live in a world where I can say I don't understand it all but I do understand that God brings good out of bad. That's all I can understand.

[jimwalton]

It’s a Christian cliché answer to almost every negative in our lives: “Well, God is in control.” Is this Scriptural? Obviously, I think not.

You can show biblically many illustrations where God changes people’s behavior and determines various circumstances. You can also show that he does not.

The Bible is quite clear that the sin that is in us and the temptations we face are not God's doing (James 1.14). So even on the basis of one text, I can say with confidence that there are things that happen on Earth that are not God's doing. Therefore, "God is in control" (meaning God has a hand in everything that happens) is simply not biblically true.

John 12.31, 14.30, and 16.11, as well as Ephesians 2.2 make clear to us that God is not the only spiritual force at work in the world, and therefore not everything that happens can be laid back on God's shoulders with "Well, God is in control."

In response to that, the most prevalent justifications are "He didn’t make it happen, but he allowed it," and "We don't understand the mysteries of the will of God."

But if "God is in control," then his "allowing" things is not really any different than God causing them to happen. It's implying that God gave a stamp of approval, which means God has approved children's tragic deaths, Hitler's evil behavior, or any sin that goes on. He can’t be in control and be hands off. The implication is revolting, but also inescapable if God in fact is in control. If God is in control at all times—determining, causing, and controlling people’s behavior and circumstances—the implications are massive. If God’s control is all-inclusive, as we say in troubled times, then it’s not really true that I scratch my nose; God made me scratch it. I didn’t really marry my wife; God put us together. So also there’s no reason to vote, since God is in control and will install the candidate of his choice anyway. No reason to donate blood, pay your bills, feed your children, arrest criminals, care for the sick, etc. ad nauseum.

If God is in control, then he is in control. He placed Hitler and Stalin; he controlled the slaughter of millions in Uganda; he flew the planes into the World Trade Centers. He gave His stamp of approval. It's a horrific theology, and not a biblical one. People sin because of the evil in their own hearts. Satan is at work. There are forces at work in the world that don't have God's approval. Otherwise, we have to be admitting that God approves of your sin. It's not a biblical theology, and it attributes evil to God.

But, someone may then contend, maybe God is in control but he allows certain evils. Of course God allows people to do what they do. But that doesn't tell us anything useful. "Allow" is a meaningless word in terms of God’s role vis-à-vis evil. It's not wrong, just empty. It explains nothing. "Allow" means there is an autonomous agent with free will (like a human, a demon, or Satan) able to do something which God refrains from intervening to prevent, in which case God is not in control of that person’s free will, nor the consequences of it. That person is in control of their free will. That's what free will is, and God is not to be tagged with having a hand in it.

There is a world of difference between allowing things to happen and causing them to happen. We cannot start out saying "God is in control," and then back off to say that "he allows them to happen." Those are not the same beliefs at all.

The only possible reconciliation is to say that sometimes he controls and sometimes he allows, but if God allows people to do things of their own free will even some of the time, then that means we have the capacity of make our own autonomous decisions and actions in which God is not involved. Therefore He is neither in control of that or allowing it. He can therefore be said to be "in control" only by doing violence to the nature He Himself created in us. And therefore our free will isn't free and God is to blame for evil.

If God does determine, cause, and control circumstances, and put His stamp of approval on everything, then He must necessarily be the direct and immediate cause of all evil simply because evil is intrinsic to human circumstances. Therefore it's useless for God to hold us accountable for our own decisions and actions. They are, ultimately, His evil and His sin. This is simply unacceptable and a wrong view.

I would contend, instead, that Satan is the prince of the power of the air, and that he is the strong man more in control of this world than God is. God has entered the world as an invading presence to buy back and draw back to Himself all He is able.

I think that "spiritual battle" (Eph. 6.10-18) is a meaningless phrase unless there is a true battle going on which God is not able to secure at this point (but not because of a lack of power, but because He restrains His power waiting for the proper time). Satan is an active and powerful force. The instinctive response is to assert that God is sovereign but that He voluntarily allows Satan to operate. Of course God is sovereign and of course He voluntarily allows Satan to operate. But God’s sovereignty does not require him to determine, cause, or control all things. And He can grant free will to another agent without compromising His sovereignty. But when he grants free will, then he is no longer in control of what they decide and what the results are from it. Therefore God is not in control of the sin a sinner chooses to do. God is not in control of that, nor did God allow it. It was instead the sinful decision of an individual with free will who acts contrary to God's will and desires.

I think that God gave us free will and therefore has no control over us or the circumstances resulting from our behavior unless we yield that control to him.

Many people would feel lost without a sense that God was in control. Amid the apparent anarchy in the world, they take great comfort in the idea that our sovereign Lord is actually keeping control of everything according to His perfect plan.

I find this far from comforting, for if that is true, then God produced Nazi Germany, child molesters, witchcraft, divorce, and every other form of evil. But the Bible is clear that the world is quite literally out of control, not because our God is not sovereign or capable of doing anything about it, but because He gave us free will, and people sow, and reap what they sow, and He is no longer in control of it. Our world is in a state of anarchy, and if God is in control, then anarchy is the nature of His control. That makes me both confused and terrified. When I look at the Gospels, where the kingdom of God was manifest, Jesus's reign was not characterized by anarchy. There is no theology that teaches that the anarchy we see in this world is a mark of God’s control.

“But if God is not in control, my faith is destroyed,” some would say. I take the opposite view. If God is in control, my faith is shattered.