Board index ‹ Assorted Bible Questions

[Newbie]

Luke 11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

John 16:12-14 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of Truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

1 Corinthians 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

Hebrews 10:15-16 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, this is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them.

Matthew 21:22 And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.

If the Holy Spirit guides us and God answers prayer, why does the concept of fallible doctrine even exist?

If we call a Church doctrine fallible, aren't we essentially saying that it is man-made and not inspired by God? Why would we settle for man-made doctrine if all we have to do is pray for God's guidance, receive God's guidance through the Holy Spirit, and then have infallible doctrine?

[jimwalton]

I'm not sure what you mean by "fallible doctrine." Certainly doctrines that are considered to be the teaching of the Church or the positions held by the Church as taught in the Bible are not known to be faulty. The Church doesn't hold to a position it knows to be wrong, and therefore labels it "fallible doctrine." So I'm a little confused.

> If we call a Church doctrine fallible, aren't we essentially saying that it is man-made and not inspired by God?

I would think so. If we call a Church doctrine fallible, we'd be contesting it, saying it's no good. I'm with you so far.

Your question seems to be, "If the Holy Spirit is so active in guiding and leading into truth and answering prayer, why are there so many errors?"

The Holy Spirit is a guide, not a commander. People have to choose to live by the Spirit (Gal. 5.16; 6.8; Rom. 8.5 et al.); the Spirit never forces himself. He can be grieved by being disobeyed and ignored (Eph. 4.30). Think of the Holy Spirit this way (though all analogies fall short when pressed too hard): He's like a GPS. He's always sitting there on your dash, telling you which way to go (Jn. 14.26). It's your choice whether or not to do it. If you choose a different path, it says, "Recalculating," and tries to get you on the right path. Always there as a guide, but never as a commander. You can choose to follow, or choose to defy. The GPS is intent on getting you to your chosen destination, and will never stop guiding, instructing, correcting. But it's up to you to follow or not. You can even turn it off if you want and go whatever way you choose.

To be honest with you, I would say that lots of people aren't very good at hearing the Spirit, submitting to Him, and walking with Him. And, frankly, that's the person's problem, not the Spirit's. He's always there, "on the dashboard," ready to go.

[The King]

> People have to choose to live by the Spirit (Gal. 5.16; 6.8; Rom. 8.5 et al.); the Spirit never forces himself.

The OP is not talking about Church behavior, The OP is talking about Church doctrine.

> I would say that lots of people aren't very good at hearing the Spirit, submitting to Him, and walking with Him.

How would you know that without the Holy Spirit guiding you to know that?

[jimwalton]

> The OP is not talking about Church behavior, The OP is talking about Church doctrine.

Yeah, I realize that, but it was a weird question. The Church doesn't subscribe to doctrines it knows to be false or fallible.

> How would you know that without the Holy Spirit guiding you to know that?

Great question, and tough to answer. I'll grant that it is subjective. People have to learn the ways of the Spirit, and learn to hear the voice of the Spirit inside them. I know it sounds weird all by itself, and people are easily self-deceived. The Bible says it's possible and practical to be tuned into the Spirit of God (Rom. 8.5; Gal. 5.25).

[William Hendershot]

The standard excuse given to me every time I ask about the actions of a corrupt Pope or how one Pope can apologize for the actions of a prior Pope or how the Church can change a previous doctrine to basically the opposite is that everything I ask about is fallible because man is fallible. There are only a few "infallible doctrines". My follow-up question is usually this; Why is it that whatever ensures that these very few doctrines that are infallible (Holy Spirit?) is not in effect or utilized for all other doctrine?

As far as not listening to the Holy Spirit, I completely understand what you are saying as it pertains to the general population. What I am talking about here is the Pope and his advisors when they are considering exactly what Church doctrine should be.

[jimwalton]

Thanks for the clarification. Yeah, I don't subscribe to the whole "pope" thing. Papal infallibility was announced in 1076, by a pope, no doubt, which calls the whole thing into question, as if it wasn't questionable at root anyway. To me the entire concept is flawed from the outset. Popes declare they're infallible, and the denounce and reverse the edicts of previous infallible popes. Some popes (Adrian VI in 1523) even denied papal infallibility, which makes me wonder if that was an infallible declaration or not. : ) It's a system doomed to senselessness, in my opinion.

[William Hendershot]

> Yeah, I realize that, but it was a weird question. The Church doesn't subscribe to doctrines it knows to be false or fallible.

The Church has in the past made infallible decrees or statements regarding certain Catholic doctrine being infallible. If it is possible for the Pope to make a statement regarding the Church's position on a certain issue and that statement is infallible (cannot be wrong and/or cannot be changed) because it is divinely inspired, why can't the same standard be applied to all statements made by the Pope regarding the Church's position on issues?

[jimwalton]

Yeah, see, I think the Church was wrong and out of line to make infallible decrees or statements regarding certain Catholic doctrine being infallible. I think it was illegitimate. I don't agree with or endorse the whole idea of papal infallibility. And therefore I don't think it's possible "for the Pope to make a statement regarding the Church's position on a certain issue and that statement is infallible," and therefore that same standard can't be applied elsewhere because it's a groundless standard. Just my opinion.

[The King]

> The Bible says it's possible and practical to be tuned into the Spirit of God (Rom. 8.5; Gal. 5.25).

Well, sure it's possible. The question is: when does one know it is happening?

[jimwalton]

The Bible gives a few hints as to how one can know it is happening.

1. Your life is characterized by the love of God (1 Cor. 13; Jn. 13.35)
2. Your life is characterized by evidence of the Spirit in you (Gal. 5.22-23)
3. The Spirit manifests himself not in ecstatic practices but in moral activity (Jn. 14.15; Gal. 5.22-23; Phil. 4.8-9)—outward, concrete acts of service to others in moral conduct (Gal. 5.6; Jn. 13.15).
4. A person has the character qualities of Jesus (Rom. 8.29; Gal. 4.19; Col. 2.10).

Romans 8 gives a lot of suggestions as well.