Board index ‹ Specific Bible verses, texts, and passages ‹ Exodus

[Willie Henders]

I never used the word ignorant. I said that there are many examples in the Bible indicating God does not know the future. If that is the case, it is by God's design. If God wanted a system in which he already knew everything that would happen from the beginning, He could surely have made it that way.

What you described above doesn't really conflict with this premise. I agree there is huge difference between already knowing the future and having the power to shape the future any way He wishes.

So, do you believe that God knew that the Israelites would ultimately slaughter the Canaanites when He was developing his plan?

[jimwalton]

> I never used the word "ignorant."

True. You said, "I agree that there are many examples in the Bible indicating God does not know the future." I was taking "does not know the future" as "ignorant of the future." Not derogatorily in terms of "stupid," but synonymously as in terms of "doesn't know."

> So, do you believe that God knew that the Israelites would ultimately slaughter the Canaanites when He was developing his plan?

I'd have to go with that. Yeah, he would have to have known that's the way it was going to play out, but at that point the "slaughter" as you put it (which I don't think was the case, by the way) was "just war" administered to miscreants and rebels as retribution for crimes committed and to restore justice to the land, no different than when the Allied forces invaded Germany in early 1945 (or late '44).

[Willie Henders]

So if the end result was always going to be the killing of the Canaanites, then that must have been God's plan. All this talk about giving them the opportunity to convert, etc. is irrelevant since it was never an actual possibility.

This brings us back to the hundreds of ways God could have accomplished the killing of the Canaanites, including doing it Himself or pitting all the enemies of Israel against each other.

Leaving Israel out of the killing would be consistent with an effort to civilize them as a society.

[jimwalton]

You are confusing causality with possibility. Because someone chooses it (even if I'll know they'll choose it) does not require that I made them do it or that was my plan. Them converting was always a very real possibility, but they didn't choose it.

> This brings us back to the hundreds of ways God could have accomplished the killing of the Canaanites, including doing it Himself or pitting all the enemies of Israel against each other.

I find it hard to believe that you would any more comfort in God wiping them out Sodom and Gomorrah style, or in God forcing them to kill each other. What is more merciful and just is to allow them legitimate opportunity to surrender and change their ways. That gives them one final chance to choose the right and experience mercy. It's both more kind and more just than a fireball from heaven.

> Leaving Israel out of the killing would be consistent with an effort to civilize them as a society.

I think you're guilty of anachronism. You're defining "civilized" the way we do in 2014, not in the mindset and worldview of ancient cultures.